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UTG+1 is a winning reg. I used to think he was a donk, but he seems sort of TAG these days. I probably have a competent/TAG image.feral_cow_icon.gifv1.24Feral Cow PokerHEM/Bodog NL Hold'em $2.00/$4.00 - 9 playersHJ: $803.09 CO: $973.90 Button: $403.50 SB: $615.00 BB: $412.00 (Hero)UTG: $392.00 UTG+1: $613.00 MP: $452.00 MP2: $274.00 Preflop: ($6.00) Hero is BB with :3h: :qh: (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $4.00, 5 folds, SB calls $2.00, Hero checksFlop: ($12.00) :jh: :ts: :5c: (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $8.00, UTG+1 raises to $29.00, SB folds, Hero raises to $89.00, UTG+1 calls $60.00Turn: ($190.00) :club:: (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $95.00, Hero calls $95.00River: ($380.00) :4h: (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $380.00, Hero ?

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punt. i mean we chop sometimes......probably a folllddwow that was painful to saydid you consider betting the turn?

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UTG+1 is a winning reg. I used to think he was a donk, but he seems sort of TAG these days. I probably have a competent/TAG image.feral_cow_icon.gifv1.24Feral Cow PokerHEM/Bodog NL Hold'em $2.00/$4.00 - 9 playersHJ: $803.09 CO: $973.90 Button: $403.50 SB: $615.00 BB: $412.00 (Hero)UTG: $392.00 UTG+1: $613.00 MP: $452.00 MP2: $274.00 Preflop: ($6.00) Hero is BB with :3h: :qh: (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $4.00, 5 folds, SB calls $2.00, Hero checksFlop: ($12.00) :jh: :ts: :5c: (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $8.00, UTG+1 raises to $29.00, SB folds, Hero raises to $89.00, UTG+1 calls $60.00Turn: ($190.00) :club:: (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $95.00, Hero calls $95.00River: ($380.00) :4h: (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $380.00, Hero ?
Well. What do we thing UTG +1 limped with?
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UTG+1 is a winning reg and he's open limping from EP? I guess I just b/f turn? But if he flats we have to jam river as well. Obviously he has some understanding of your range here, so when he flats your 4bet on the flop you can limit it down to combo draws, sets, 2 pair? Can't have QJhh here. Why would a competent reg limp 7s, 8s, or 10s here though? 108 is a possibility I guess. You have the Jh blocker, which makes it even harder to put on some sort of combo draw. I don't know Marchant, I have a really hard time putting him on a range that you beat here. I think it's even harder because you checked, because you're just going to get bombed on two streets. I guess since we checked we can fold the turn? Because unless you have some specific read here, you're just never going to be comfortable with your hand on the river. This was kind of all over the place, just a tough spot.

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UTG+1 is a winning reg and he's open limping from EP? I guess I just b/f turn? But if he flats we have to jam river as well. Obviously he has some understanding of your range here, so when he flats your 4bet on the flop you can limit it down to combo draws, sets, 2 pair? Can't have QJhh here. Why would a competent reg limp 7s, 8s, or 10s here though? 108 is a possibility I guess. You have the Jh blocker, which makes it even harder to put on some sort of combo draw. I don't know Marchant, I have a really hard time putting him on a range that you beat here. I think it's even harder because you checked, because you're just going to get bombed on two streets. I guess since we checked we can fold the turn? Because unless you have some specific read here, you're just never going to be comfortable with your hand on the river. This was kind of all over the place, just a tough spot.
This is gross. RE: the turn, after we 3 bet the flop, isnt a compitent reg gonna bet pretty much his whole range with this card when we check? Also if we c/c... is a blank? river also a c/c If he bricks of the river on a draw, is he firing again?
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Yeah, he's probably going to barrel his whole range on the turn, but what range are you going to assign him? Keep in mind, it has to be a very limited range, because cobalt 4bet fairly large on the flop, which in turn gives cobalt a fairly limited range as well.

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I'm not trolling or nit-picking but the flop is a 3bbc I keep reading your posts and going... how is all the monies not in the middle.. 3b flop and limped pot...unless I dunno what I'm talking about... which is possible

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I'm not trolling or nit-picking but the flop is a 3bbc I keep reading your posts and going... how is all the monies not in the middle.. 3b flop and limped pot...unless I dunno what I'm talking about... which is possible
oh whoops, thought sb lead out for some reason****ING TROLL
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Yeah, he's probably going to barrel his whole range on the turn, but what range are you going to assign him? Keep in mind, it has to be a very limited range, because cobalt 4bet fairly large on the flop, which in turn gives cobalt a fairly limited range as well.
Pretty much what you said in your first post, boats and combo draws are rally the only things I can really see him have here.. The problem I am having is assigning a compitent reg a limping range that connects this strongly... any 2pair combo that isnt top 2 is burning money by raising the flop imo so i think we can take 7 8 and 10 7 out. when he just calls the 3bet it really looks like a set that is doing some pot control because hes gonna hate a lot of turns, but as you said, what pairs does he limp with here? I guess we are beating, like, the a 9 of hearts or something but there probably arent enough of those kinds of hands in his range at this point. The more I think about it, the more I think c/f is pretty okay... gross as it is, but im pretty lost here so dont take my word for it
I feel like one...bc I have no idea about this spot
*shrug* hasn't stopped me :club:
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Nit picking a bit but in limp pots I always bet pot for value. I've seen some regs at fr limp on occasion but I have no idea what their limping range is exactly. On top of that his flat to your 3bet makes little to no sense on that flop. So it becomes rly messy to put him on anything here because the thought process of villain is gonna be pretty warped imo. Maybe it's a higher level than I think it is but I don't give credit to anyone that open limps online. I want to discount 77/88/TT from his range since I think all sets have to shove on such a wet board and it'd be so weird for us to bet/3bet in a limp pot without a hand we want to go with. I suppose 77 might think that there are few hands he crushes that get it in and wants to see a safe turn? Turn I'd bet but I'm not sure if it's a b/f or a b/c. I'd probably just b/c because any hand that's ahead of us has played pretty horribly and a retard draw seems just as likely as a retard set here.

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I strongly disagree that a set gets it in on that flop, especially in position. I'm grinding right now so I can't really go into it more but given what Cobalt has told us about the villain I don't think a set is getting it in there, and doing so would be pretty suicidal imo

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sets are certainly still in his range... what I'm curious about is how we think the river card changes his range enough to make the turn a call and the river a fold... river is a scare card so I'd think it'd be more likely to induce a bluff... also completes other weird nines that would do this.The only thing that makes this gross to call is the PSB imo. 2:1 isn't quite in the automagic sexy odds rangeAs far as Cobalts line I think it's the most profitable line given the shitty turn card... I'm not much a fan of bet/folding the turn, which is the only other option i see

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I strongly disagree that a set gets it in on that flop, especially in position. I'm grinding right now so I can't really go into it more but given what Cobalt has told us about the villain I don't think a set is getting it in there, and doing so would be pretty suicidal imo
I agree that it'd be pretty bad to get it in. I just never give that much credit to anyone that has open limping in their play book. Like if this guy is a significant winner then I agree it's much more likely that's he'd flat sets. I just don't get why a winning player would open limp 77/88/TT.
Yeah I agree with the aussie, I don't think a player like that gets it in with sets on that board. Stats would be very useful for this hand.
Yea stats would definately help.
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Here's the guy's PTR...http://www.pokertableratings.com/bodog-pla...search/aseem786So you'll notice that he's a long-term winner, but not like a huge winner or anything...which I think is why I tried to imply 'mildly competent'. PTR has him at 16.4/8.6/2.6 at 1/2 FR. His raise flop is 12%. Are there any other stats y'all want? You'll notice that he has some hands at 2/4, but he has far more below that level.I do think that he could limp a pocket pair at FR...especially at a loose-bad table (which these usually are).I also agree with most everyone that I think he's firing most of his range on the turn.

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He might be firing most of his range on the turn, but his range is so super super strong from previous streets that it's not like he has some enormous bluff range or anything.
Ya exactly. There's just so few hands that he could have here, most of which have us drawing dead.
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He might be firing most of his range on the turn, but his range is so super super strong from previous streets that it's not like he has some enormous bluff range or anything.
Quite. That's a large part of the issue. Can you get on board with the c/f turn? That's kind of tough for me...I just don't feel like we quite have enough info to fold at that point.
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He might be firing most of his range on the turn, but his range is so super super strong from previous streets that it's not like he has some enormous bluff range or anything.
Doesn't the "i'm way overvaluing my hand" range come into play though?Just because the guy is a "competent tag" doesn't mean we can give him credit for being a good player.
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Doesn't the "i'm way overvaluing my hand" range come into play though?Just because the guy is a "competent tag" doesn't mean we can give him credit for being a good player.
What hand could he be overvaluing in this spot?
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