A Few Hands From Rush

[fakepoo 0]

Hand #1:Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterSB: $2.12BB: $11.17UTG: $12.04UTG+1: $10.51UTG+2: $10.67MP1: $33.34MP2: $14.45Hero (CO): $11.57BTN: $12.37Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with J J 5 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.70Flop: ($2.15) 7 6 9 (2 players)Hero checks, BTN bets $1, Hero?Hand #2:Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterBB: $11.38UTG: $10.20UTG+1: $9.19UTG+2: $3.85MP1: $16.41MP2: $6.28CO: $11.03BTN: $10.96Hero (SB): $23.15Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with Q Q 3 folds, MP1 raises to $0.30, MP2 calls $0.30, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.30, Hero raises to $1.80, 2 folds, MP2 calls $1.50, BTN calls $1.50Flop: ($5.80) 4 6 4 (3 players)Hero bets $3, MP2 folds, BTN raises to $6, Hero?

[trystero 0]

hand 2 is an easy allinhand 1 is meh, call and reeval turn

[rrumsey 0]

i would have bet called hand #1 and re evaled turnbasically the same for hand 2. If you check hand one flop, you are snap calling 100% the time, and donking safe turns imo

[rrumsey 0]

hand 2 is an easy allinhand 1 is meh, call and reeval turn

sort of agree, but not easy, imo more a thin about 50% ish kinda push an we are ahead, but punch line is kinda the same

[trystero 0]

it's easy in the sense that you have no realistic alternative. there's $8.80 in the pot when villain minraises. are you folding? never. are you flatting? nah. The only option you have is to shove and to live with the results.

[fakepoo 0]

For hand #1, is there any sense in 4-betting preflop? Doesn't that 3-bet look like a "I've got the button and your cutoff opening range is pretty wide" type of reraise? I only say that because if I were the button, I would be 3-betting a cutoff open with like top 40% of my hands.For hand #2, does the preflop raise size look good? What range can we put villain on after minraising the flop?

[trystero 0]

hand 1 I like a 3-bet/call given the right circumstances. No reads full-ring? NahHand 2 PFR is fine, maybe a tad large but you have to thin this field or just take it down now. It doesn't matter what villain's range is postflop. There's no way you're folding QQ+ here. I guess you can give him a range of 66/4x(but it's hard for him to have called such a big raise w/4x, would have to be 44/A4s?) and pocket pairs like 88/99.

[jmbreslin 0]

Hand 1: Button's weakish CB looks a bit like a scared CB with missed overs, probably AK. Could even be wider than that since you raised from a stealing position and 3-bets are far more common in Rush than regular 10NL. I have to assume he'd bet bigger on such a drawy flop with a hand he wanted to protect. I'd call and see if I can catch him firing again on the turn (and hopefully an Ace won't hit).Hand 2: That's a pretty strong play from Button. He flat calls the initial raise, calls your 3b, and then minraises you on a 446 flop. After 3-betting from the SB and leading OOP into 2 villains he has to put you on a big pair, so I have a really hard time believing he's raising with anything you beat. If he were semi-bluffing with a FD+overs he'd probably just shove. He'd probably also slowplay 66, so I'm putting him on a 4, like A4s.

[fakepoo 0]

Ok, I am pretty comfortable going broke on hand #2 because I can see it being mid pairs alot.On hand #1 though, I am having a tough time. What is our plan after calling preflop? Are we willing to go broke on low flops (as in 9-high)? Doesn't check-calling every street give villain a chance to get there if he has AK/AQ or a suited connector that hit part of this flop? As played, suppose I call the flop bet and reevaluate on the turn and it is a blank like a 2c. Do I check or bet? Assuming I check and villain bets $3, then what?Here is my thought process during the hand....please help me identify bad thinking:I open JJ in the cutoff for 30 cents. Button makes it $1. Button could be doing this pretty wide. If I 4-bet, I am probably folding out hands I beat while getting it in against hands that beat me or are racing with me so I will smooth call here and see how safe the flop is. The flop comes 9-high. This is a safe enough flop so I will go for a check-raise as I'm sure he will c-bet and I don't want to give free cards to beat me. Villain bets $1. That looks like a pretty weak c-bet so I'll raise here with the intention of getting it in. I raise to $3. Villain shoves for $7.57 more and I call. %!!!! Villain shows AA. Why the hell am I stacking off with JJ over 100BB deep? Fakepoo, you are such an overplaying idiot!

[mtdesmoines 3]

Hand #1:?

Hand one: Lead flop every time, raise to 3.75 or so as played.Hand two: arrrrr eeeennn

[Danege 1]

Hand one: Lead flop every time, raise to 3.75 or so as played.

Why do you wanna donk into the preflop 3 bettor?Why do you want to raise his flop bet? Do you think AK will call? Do you think TT will call?

[CobaltBlue 662]

fakepoo, barring reads (since it's Rush) I actually do recommend 4-betting the JJ pre-flop in a CO/Button dynamic most of the time. Like, we're OOP, and we should have the best hand a lot...and just because he should fold worse hands doesn't mean that he will. If we're flipping (on the good side) or dominated, so be it. If the positions were different, then I'd agree that caution may serve us better. If I did flat here, then we're much better just check/calling the flop. C/ring just puts us in a super dumb spot when he shoves. Donking would be kind of interesting...though I'd almost never do it.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Hand one: Lead flop every time, raise to 3.75 or so as played.

This is so awful I can't even describe it. Why on earth would you donk this flop in a 3bet pot when villain is/will/should raise 100% of his range?Why the hell do you want to raise as played?

[jmbreslin 0]

Ok, I am pretty comfortable going broke on hand #2 because I can see it being mid pairs alot.

Really? You 3-bet and then lead the flop OOP into 2 villains and he minraises you for most of his remaining stack...I'd expect to see a mid pair about 3% of the time there.

[SwolyswoND 1]

He can't have much else besides 77-JJ or Axcc. He flatted on the BTN and then flatted again IP to the 3bet. That screams suited aces or mid pairs.

[fakepoo 0]

Really? You 3-bet and then lead the flop OOP into 2 villains and he minraises you for most of his remaining stack...I'd expect to see a mid pair about 3% of the time there.

So do you think it is trips+ enough for us to fold to the minraise?

[CobaltBlue 662]

This is so awful I can't even describe it. Why on earth would you donk this flop in a 3bet pot when villain is/will/should raise 100% of his range?

Well, we could actually take the line against a maniac. For example, if you're convinced that your overpair is good a huge majority of the time, we could lead into him to get him to spazz-raise. Granted, I'd much prefer to do it with a set or two pair.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Well, we could actually take the line against a maniac. For example, if you're convinced that your overpair is good a huge majority of the time, we could lead into him to get him to spazz-raise. Granted, I'd much prefer to do it with a set or two pair.

I understand your point, but I was taking everything about the hand into the context. How can we ever be that sure that JJ is good a majority of the time here? Let's assume a slightly wider than normal 3bet range for Villain since its BTN vs. CO. (This may not even be true - a normal fish will not 3bet wider here, but a good reg would.) So let's put it at 66+, AT+, KQs. Two scenarios happen when you donkbet: 1) Villain raises 100% of his range.You'd have to shove here - and you are in poor shape vs. the range. 66/77/99 have you crushed, against 88/TT you are not as far ahead as you would think (88 has like 40% equity, TT about 25%)2) Villain raises the high end of his range and folds the bottom end.Now you still have to get it in as before, but now you're in terrible shape, and you've let the junky hands like the unpaired/unsuited broadways or marginal hands like TT get away. You win less against the bottom of his range by leading, and always lose the most against the top of his range. I see no reason not to c/c.

[trystero 0]

I'm glad you said it for me...too much work

[mtdesmoines 3]

This is so awful I can't even describe it. Why on earth would you donk this flop in a 3bet pot when villain is/will/should raise 100% of his range?Why the hell do you want to raise as played?

Our PF action kinds sucks because we look like we're set mining with a mid pair. JJ is a strong hand PF. We hate almost all overcard turns-- we're not letting him float is for a dollar in a $3.75 pot -- that's retarded. We need to get value from our hand / play JJ faster because we saw a good flop which doesn't happen enough with JJ to be profitable calling down. He'll tell us the strength of his hand with his response. If he flats, we could turn a decent draw vs a hand that's ahead. IMHO, this can't be played profitably any other way than fold PF to the 3 bet or get chips in on this flop. Also, to me, the villain's $1 bet just seems like a "we missed but let's bet and see if he has the C/F box checked."Just for sake of argument, what are your actions on flops like ... :When villain bets $1?AK3 AT4KT8QT868723488T66A578When villain bets $2?AK3 AT4KT8QT868723488T66A578When villain checks?AK3 AT4KT8QT868723488T66A578When villain shoves (or overbets)?AK3 AT4KT8QT868723488T66A578

[trystero 0]

Based on PF action, we are ahead 90% of the time.

wat

[BaseJester 1]

One hand per thread is so much easier to read. Threads are free. Combining is especially pointless in a rush session.

[mtdesmoines 3]

wat

i edited that out because I mistook PF action when I was writing

[SwolyswoND 1]

You seem to think we are ahead a lot on this flop - which for one I'm pretty sure I've already shown that against the range, we are not.Now if we are in fact ahead, why do you want to let him out cheap by folding to a flop c/r? He is never flatting a c/r with a hand we beat besides TT/88...and it's more likely he will shove those anyway. I seriously can't see it ever being profitable getting stacks in on this flop.

[mtdesmoines 3]

You seem to think we are ahead a lot on this flop - which for one I'm pretty sure I've already shown that against the range, we are not.Now if we are in fact ahead, why do you want to let him out cheap by folding to a flop c/r? He is never flatting a c/r with a hand we beat besides TT/88...and it's more likely he will shove those anyway. I seriously can't see it ever being profitable getting stacks in on this flop.

There is NO reason to believe we fell behind on this flop if we believe we were ahead PF. If we did not believe we were ahead PF, we should have folded to the three bet because we aren't deep enough to set mine IMHO.