12 replies to this topic

[pokerplayer24]

Button was screech who was kicking my ass all session, or at least it felt that way. Don't know what I did wrong but the whole hand felt bad.PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is BB with , . 2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.Flop: (4.40 SB) , , (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.Turn: (4.20 BB) (2 players)Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.River: (8.20 BB) (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.Final Pot: 8.20 BB

[Absolute]

pokerplayer24, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 4:49 PM, said:

Button was screech who was kicking my ass all session, or at least it felt that way. Don't know what I did wrong but the whole hand felt bad.PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is BB with , . 2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.Flop: (4.40 SB) , , (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.Turn: (4.20 BB) (2 players)Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.River: (8.20 BB) (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.Final Pot: 8.20 BB

I'm not sure I like any street.Easy pre-flop raise. Why are you getting cute out of position against an aggressive player? Get another bet. Against smart aggressive players short-handed and out of position, we must put as much in the pot preflop with our monster holdings.Bet this flop every single time. Giving a free card here would be a disaster, and if he is an aggressive player, he might be raising you anyway.Three-bet the turn and if he caps check/call the river.If he just calls your turn 3-bet, we obviously lead the river.Had we obstained from playing this pot cute, it would have about 3 more BB in it.Even if he has you beat, your hand is good enough of the time to make all these bets +EV.

[pokerplayer24]

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Three-bet the turn and if he caps check/call the river.

I think this was my main mistake. As far as preflop I really think I get just as much out of my hand by cold calling preflop and checkraising the flop as I would by 3-betting it vs a player whos capable of folding.

[screech]

pokerplayer24, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 1:07 PM, said:

I think this was my main mistake. As far as preflop I really think I get just as much out of my hand by cold calling preflop and checkraising the flop as I would by 3-betting it vs a player whos capable of folding.

I really like how you played pf. I think if you played it differently, you would not have won so much postflop.The flop c/r is good. Obviously I'm betting 100% of the time here.The turn is a tough spot. But since you disguised your hand pf, I think you either have to 3-bet here, or donk the river. I think my hand range here in order of likelyhood is:1) pp2) Jx3) A/K high flush draw4) airIf you 3-bet, I will probably fold most pp's and 3-bet Jx. But you will get value from a flush draw. Not that much though, since I will improve to beat you about 25% of the time, and when I do, I will likely pick up a bet on the end.So I like the turn call. I think you need to bet/call this river. If I have a jack, so be it. You shouldn't feel too bad about only losing 5BB's postflop with your hand.

[econ_tim]

pokerplayer24, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 2:49 PM, said:

Button was screech

this is your mistake. if you want to play tough players, do it for micro stakes.

[Absolute]

screech, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 5:52 PM, said:

I really like how you played pf. I think if you played it differently, you would not have won so much postflop.The flop c/r is good. Obviously I'm betting 100% of the time here.The turn is a tough spot. But since you disguised your hand pf, I think you either have to 3-bet here, or donk the river. I think my hand range here in order of likelyhood is:1) pp2) Jx3) A/K high flush draw4) airIf you 3-bet, I will probably fold most pp's and 3-bet Jx. But you will get value from a flush draw. Not that much though, since I will improve to beat you about 25% of the time, and when I do, I will likely pick up a bet on the end.So I like the turn call. I think you need to bet/call this river. If I have a jack, so be it. You shouldn't feel too bad about only losing 5BB's postflop with your hand.

I seriously doubt he would have won less if he three-bet pre-flop.I hope you aren't using results based thinking.One of my mentors (a very good high-stakes player) used to pound this in to my head. In a short-handed game, we need to make the most out of our big hands.Sure you are gonna bet 100% of the time there, but an aggressive player is also going to call and raise a lot of the time there. If we want to check/raise anywhere in this hand, we wait and do it on the turn.

screech, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 5:52 PM, said:

I really like how you played pf. I think if you played it differently, you would not have won so much postflop.The flop c/r is good. Obviously I'm betting 100% of the time here.The turn is a tough spot. But since you disguised your hand pf, I think you either have to 3-bet here, or donk the river. I think my hand range here in order of likelyhood is:1) pp2) Jx3) A/K high flush draw4) airIf you 3-bet, I will probably fold most pp's and 3-bet Jx. But you will get value from a flush draw. Not that much though, since I will improve to beat you about 25% of the time, and when I do, I will likely pick up a bet on the end.So I like the turn call. I think you need to bet/call this river. If I have a jack, so be it. You shouldn't feel too bad about only losing 5BB's postflop with your hand.

Not to mention, if you didn't have QQ beat, there is some donking off of chips going on here.

[screech]

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Not to mention, if you didn't have QQ beat, there is some donking off of chips going on here.

?I don't really understand this. You were all for him 3-betting pf which would have given away the strength of his hand. Since he called, it added deception. I could now play A7, TT-88, and AA-QQ this way. Given his pf call, I really don't see much difference in me having TT or AA here. I'm raising the turn with both for value, because I expect most TAG's to usually 3-bet pf with any pp higher than 77. Given how he played the hand, I thought his most likely holding was 7x, a small pp, or a gutshot, followed by Jx, followed by a resteal.I actually think I played the fairly well, but I may be overestimating my fold equity against weaker pairs.

[Absolute]

screech, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 6:11 PM, said:

?I don't really understand this. You were all for him 3-betting pf which would have given away the strength of his hand. Since he called, it added deception. I could now play A7, TT-88, and AA-QQ this way. Given his pf call, I really don't see much difference in me having TT or AA here. I'm raising the turn with both for value, because I expect most TAG's to usually 3-bet pf with any pp higher than 77. Given how he played the hand, I thought his most likely holding was 7x, a small pp, or a gutshot, followed by Jx, followed by a resteal.I actually think I played the fairly well, but I may be overestimating my fold equity against weaker pairs.

You had TT?

screech, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 6:11 PM, said:

?I don't really understand this. You were all for him 3-betting pf which would have given away the strength of his hand. Since he called, it added deception. I could now play A7, TT-88, and AA-QQ this way. Given his pf call, I really don't see much difference in me having TT or AA here. I'm raising the turn with both for value, because I expect most TAG's to usually 3-bet pf with any pp higher than 77. Given how he played the hand, I thought his most likely holding was 7x, a small pp, or a gutshot, followed by Jx, followed by a resteal.I actually think I played the fairly well, but I may be overestimating my fold equity against weaker pairs.

Its going to be hard for us to be objective knowing your holding, but I might actually be more aggressive if I had TT there.

[screech]

Absolute, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 3:10 PM, said:

You had TT?Its going to be hard for us to be objective knowing your holding, but I might actually be more aggressive if I had TT there.

I realize that.Actually, I really don't feel too good about how I played the hand. I had A3s.Pf is a no brainer.The flop is probably a fold. Given my read though, I felt it was unlikely he had a jack here. I thought a small pp/7x/a gutshot were his most likely holdings. How would you guys proceed here?I'm unsure about the turn as well. I felt like I had some folding equity against small pp's, and I would really like to fold a gutshot here which would have 7 outs. Given that I have so many outs against his most likely holdings, I don't need that much fold equity to make raising correct given the pot size. River is pretty obvious too.Edit: I spewed pretty bad on the flop. You have to give pokerplayer credit for putting me in that position with his sneaky pf play.

[pokerplayer24]

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I spewed pretty bad on the flop. You have to give pokerplayer credit for putting me in that position with his sneaky pf play.

I think thats the only spot where I would have considered folding. But yea hope you dont mind the name drop in my original post. Overal just an interesting hand.

[Absolute]

screech, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 7:28 PM, said:

I realize that.Actually, I really don't feel too good about how I played the hand. I had A3s.Pf is a no brainer.The flop is probably a fold. Given my read though, I felt it was unlikely he had a jack here. I thought a small pp/7x/a gutshot were his most likely holdings. How would you guys proceed here?I'm unsure about the turn as well. I felt like I had some folding equity against small pp's, and I would really like to fold a gutshot here which would have 7 outs. Given that I have so many outs against his most likely holdings, I don't need that much fold equity to make raising correct given the pot size. River is pretty obvious too.Edit: I spewed pretty bad on the flop. You have to give pokerplayer credit for putting me in that position with his sneaky pf play.

Take one off on the flop and fold the turn U/I.This is why I don't play with friends. I always think they are making moves on me.

[pokerplayer24]

Absolute, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 3:24 PM, said:

Take one off on the flop and fold the turn U/I.This is why I don't play with friends. I always think they are making moves on me.

We know eachother from the forum and thats it as we've never chatted outside the forum. I doubt he changed the way he played the hand because I post here.

[screech]

pokerplayer24, on Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 4:29 PM, said:

We know eachother from the forum and thats it as we've never chatted outside the forum. I doubt he changed the way he played the hand because I post here.

Yeah. I wasn't too worried about you doing anything too weird. I'd play this way against any thinking TAG since they will raise the flop with very little, knowing it will be almost impossible for me to call.