17 replies to this topic

[7s7c]

Just curious about the forum's thinking on this one.full 1/2NL table, about half loose/agg, half tag. I have the most in front of me with about $450. UTG +1 raises to $15MP player callsCutoff callsHero in SB (Jh/Jd) callsMy thinking here is that while I'm prob best right now and could prob take it down with something like a raise to $50, I am Troy O'Leary of the original raiser who had played very few hands since joining the table and put him on a big pair in which case I may thin the MP and cutoff with a raise but then if he comes over the top (about $150-$200) in front of him, I would have a tough decision. I decided to just take a flop with multiway action here for set value and if the flop is all rags, define my hand further against the others with a bet, otherwise check-fold depending on the texture of the flop. Hero checks in the dark.Flop comes Ah/Js/9sOriginal raiser bets $35MP foldsCutoff raises to $120 ($175 or so behind him)Hero......

[iggymcfly]

Hollywoods and calls. No need to force things, and you should have no problem getting all-in on the turn. A set of jacks is an awesome hand, and the last thing you want to do is push someone out.Oh, BTW, wrong forum. This forum's for hands that don't apply to a specific game and this one does easily. Next time, post this in "No Limit Texas Hold 'Em."

[7s7c]

My bad.

[fckthis]

iggymcfly, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 4:29 AM, said:

Hollywoods and calls. No need to force things, and you should have no problem getting all-in on the turn. A set of jacks is an awesome hand, and the last thing you want to do is push someone out.Oh, BTW, wrong forum. This forum's for hands that don't apply to a specific game and this one does easily. Next time, post this in "No Limit Texas Hold 'Em."

Calling gives away his hand. He should just push.

[aucu]

fckthis, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 6:02 AM, said:

Calling gives away his hand. He should just push.

Not quite, there is a flush and possible str8 draw that he could represent having with a call.But do you want to give someone else that draw with only a call?

[fckthis]

aucu, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 6:28 AM, said:

Not quite, there is a flush and possible str8 draw that he could represent having with a call.But do you want to give someone else that draw with only a call?

Cold calling a raise and a re-raise generally means the guyhas a very strong hand. Of course this is live 1/2 and no one would figure this out, but Id still rather push here.

[throwemaway]

fckthis, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 6:34 AM, said:

Cold calling a raise and a re-raise generally means the guyhas a very strong hand. Of course this is live 1/2 and no one would figure this out, but Id still rather push here.

I think it somewhat depends on what you think the original raiser is going to do and how you read him..Lets say he has AK or AQ and you flat call, what do you think his action is going to be? Is he good enough to realize that his TPTK is no good or is he aggressive and gonna shove them all in? If thats the case, I would flat call and then hopefully get everyones money in the pot..But if you read him for weak and you think he c/bet with QQ, KK, or is capable of folding AK-AQ even if you just flat call, then I like a raise because its possible that cutoff is on a draw, since (I think) you pegged him as one of the loose players..If you do decide to just call here...What is your action if a spade hits? K? Q? These are all pretty scary cards..I would lean towards pushing here since most 1/2 live players are bad and will call anyways and the pot is huge already

[fckthis]

While you're right, and you can induce a call from the other player, he also might have a nice draw, something I wouldnt like to catch up here. I'll protect my hands in this spot.

[7s7c]

I hollywooded it and then moved in. OB folded grudgingly (I assume AK) and the raiser called with 9/9. I know, I didn't do much here to win lots of mobney and this really isn't a boast post because like I said it doesn't take much creativity to win with set over set...I was just curious if people thought I should flat call and let the OB hang himself or push out the potential OB draw and get HU with either the 2 pair or bottom set player who was essentially drawing dead.

[subsin]

i think id definately push, but maybe not allin

[fckthis]

7s7c, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 10:09 AM, said:

I hollywooded it and then moved in. OB folded grudgingly (I assume AK) and the raiser called with 9/9. I know, I didn't do much here to win lots of mobney and this really isn't a boast post because like I said it doesn't take much creativity to win with set over set...I was just curious if people thought I should flat call and let the OB hang himself or push out the potential OB draw and get HU with either the 2 pair or bottom set player who was essentially drawing dead.

you'd be kicking yourself right now if villian who folded had a draw and hit it, as you priced him in. With the amount of money, and the prospect of stacking villian 2 here, its enough to push.

[Zach6668]

subsin, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 2:47 PM, said:

i think id definately push, but maybe not allin

Poker terms 101:Push = All In

[subsin]

Zach6668, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 4:49 PM, said:

Poker terms 101:Push = All In

you can push but not go allin, re-raise watever

[Zach6668]

subsin, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 9:36 PM, said:

you can push but not go allin, re-raise watever

Push means go all in man.

[Sluggo]

Well, push/pull is a concept in hi/lo games that doesn't mean all in. Also, calling all in doesn't constitute a push, in my opinion.

[augmented]

i think you can cold call. if both your opponents then call, you could safely put one of them on a spade draw and be able to fold/slow down on the turn (though you'll be 25 percent to fill up even if someone hits a flush on the turn) if a spade does come. i also assume, since this pot is so big, that a spade draw is gonna call any raise anyway, so by cold-calling, you are saving yourself money for when a spade draw calls you and sucks out.it's a bit risky, but i would call the raise. in fact, i'd call the raise quickly to represent a flush draw myself. that way, if someone doesn't have a flush draw, THEY will be worried if a third spade comes and you might be able to push them off something. if a third spade doesnt come, they will still think their hand is good and give you all their mobney. pretty cool huh?

[BuffDan]

augmented, on Thursday, August 24th, 2006, 7:12 PM, said:

i think you can cold call. if both your opponents then call, you could safely put one of them on a spade draw and be able to fold/slow down on the turn (though you'll be 25 percent to fill up even if someone hits a flush on the turn) if a spade does come. i also assume, since this pot is so big, that a spade draw is gonna call any raise anyway, so by cold-calling, you are saving yourself money for when a spade draw calls you and sucks out.it's a bit risky, but i would call the raise. in fact, i'd call the raise quickly to represent a flush draw myself. that way, if someone doesn't have a flush draw, THEY will be worried if a third spade comes and you might be able to push them off something. if a third spade doesnt come, they will still think their hand is good and give you all their mobney. pretty cool huh?

The only problem is that if they don't have the flush draw, then we probably have them crushed and we don't want them to think we have the flush if that third spade comes. Thus, as the third spade might slow down our action anyways on the turn, a push seems reasonable on the flop.

[augmented]

BuffDan, on Thursday, August 24th, 2006, 8:01 PM, said:

The only problem is that if they don't have the flush draw, then we probably have them crushed and we don't want them to think we have the flush if that third spade comes. Thus, as the third spade might slow down our action anyways on the turn, a push seems reasonable on the flop.

a good point which i should have accounted for. still, i call here. the thing is, if you push the flop, theres no way raiser #1 pays you off unless hes got at least top 2, which he probably would have slowplayed. raiser #2 would be like, whoa, he just reraised my raise, i guess he must have a real hand. and then he'll fold. people say a cold call here shows extreme strength. i think a push shows even more.