making the pro-folds

[AlphaOmega 0]

2/4 9-max (9-handed)Reads:BB over 65MP over 311Pre-flop: Hero is dealt A K in the COfolds, MP calls, folds, Hero raises, folds, BB calls, MP callsFlop: (6.5 SB)A J 8 BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP callsTurn: (4.25 BB)6 BB checks, MP checks, Hero betsI was trying to look up his stats and it got folded before I could find them. I really wanted to call.Against a guy with those stats though, can we consider it?

[hotbacon 0]

I'd rather look the guy up.You're getting basically 9-1 on the turn call. You need to at least call there since you have a decent amount of outs vs his range (board pair, A/K are usually good). Once you get the river I wanna look him up even UI because I think I can see AQ or something else playing this way enough. Also, I would get really really pissed off if I folded and saw him rake the pot in with AQ.

[Smasharoo 0]

Against a guy with those stats though, can we consider it?No.good luck.

[screech 0]

yuck

[AlphaOmega 0]

yuck

My thoughts exactly, and I had every intention of calling had my timer not run out.Just for the sake of arguing though, the guy has a 0.65 AF and he just check/raised me. I doubt we are debating that I'm not often behind here. Since I am behind here most of the time, I'm drawing to 0-9 outs.According to the odds, I'm getting 9:1 (assuming the guy behind me calls) to call on the turn, so I'd need about 4-5 outs for me to call down. Since this hand is not HU, we don't have as many two pair outs as we think. If BB is calling down with a J, then 3 of our outs are gone. Our outs may be dirty too if BB is on a flush draw or gutshot draw.I have no idea how to quantify all of these factors. With some frequency, we will be drawing dead. With some frequency, we will have as many as 9 outs. With some frequency, we will be drawing to any number of outs in between, depending on the holding of BB.I think it may be closer than people are making it out to be.

[AceJackOffS 0]

BB over 65MP over 311

I have just recently got PT and was wondering which stats are you guys referring to.thanks in advance

[Guest Zach6668]

VP$IP/PFR%/AF/# of hands

[AceJackOffS 0]

VP$IP/PFR%/AF/# of hands

thanksare you ZachFcp on party?

[AlphaOmega 0]

BB over 65MP over 311

I have just recently got PT and was wondering which stats are you guys referring to.thanks in advance

Me too. It's awesome, isn't it?Anyway, the first number is the Voluntarily Put Money In Pot stat (VP$IP). This refers to how often they are playing, and will indicate how tight/loose someone is. The second number is the Pre-Flop Raise Percentage (PFR%). This number represents how many of the hands they play they are raising pre-flop. This number indicates if a villain is aggressive or passive pre-flop.The last number represents a compiled Aggression Factor (AF) through each street. This number is represented by the formula (% bet + % raise / % call/check) I believe, but it represents if a villain is aggressive or passive post-flop.I would recommend auto-rating all of the players in your database and checking the requirements for the auto-rate system (the default rules are fine). This will give you a better idea about what particular stats correspond with particular playing tendencies.

[AlphaOmega 0]

I'm going to pretend that Zach didn't completely answer your question, and that you actually needed a full explanation of each stat, so I don't feel like I wasted my time typing all that out.Anytime.

[PoppinFresh 0]

I usually call here, he most likely has 2-pair. Then fold the river unless an 8, A, J, 6 or K falls.

[Guest Zach6668]

VP$IP/PFR%/AF/# of hands

thanksare you ZachFcp on party?

yup, fcpjopke?

[AceJackOffS 0]

VP$IP/PFR%/AF/# of hands

thanksare you ZachFcp on party?

yup, fcpjopke?

yep

[AceJackOffS 0]

The last number represents a compiled Aggression Factor (AF) through each street. This number is represented by the formula (% bet + % raise / % call/check) I believe, but it represents if a villain is aggressive or passive post-flop.

So what are the averages for different types of players? Aggressive, tight, etc.?

I would recommend auto-rating all of the players in your database and checking the requirements for the auto-rate system (the default rules are fine). This will give you a better idea about what particular stats correspond with particular playing tendencies.

just rated all of my players for teh first time, I hadn't done it because I wasn't sure what rules to use. and did not realize that tehre were default rulesthanks alpha

[AlphaOmega 0]

In the auto-rate menu, if you go to step 2, it'll have all of the pictures of the icons associated with a particular playing style. If you hold the cursor over the settings, it will go into detail about what requirements are needed to fall into each category.No prob.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I would fold there, but I think it's close.MP is a passive player. He almost certainly has at least 2-pair.Some possible hands:AK- 6AJ- 6A8- 6A6- 6AA- 1JJ- 388- 366- 3J8s- 286s- 2That's 6 hands we tie, 6 we have 3 outs, 6 we have 6 outs, 6 we have 9 outs, 10 we're drawing dead, and 4 we have 8 outs. On average, against the 32 hands that beat us, we have about 4.3 outs. (AA and JJ should be discounted, but I think 88 and 66 should be emphasized).So, if we can be sure we'll beat BB, we're getting the right price to peel at about 9 or 10-1 (factoring in implied odds when we hit), and we need to catch MP with a worse hand 10% of the time to justify calling down the river UI getting about 10-1. And I strongly doubt a passive player is check-raising AQ here, or raising a draw against two opponents. Plus, depending on what BB has, we might not even win when we do beat MP.

[Kestral123 0]

You have to fold here in my opinion. This guy isn't very aggressive but he's moderately loose. Given that combination, it is almost a certainty that he has two pair or a set. I rule out J8 because he doesn't seem THAT loose. Your best case scenario is that he has A6 or A8, because you would then have 6-9 outs. If he has AJ, you only have 3 outs. If he has a set, you are drawing dead. Because of those other possibilities, you have to discount your outs; I'd say 4, maybe 5. On that basis, especially since a call also commits you to call the river (good old reverse implied odds), you are not getting anywhere near the right odds for this call.

[Abbaddabba 0]

That's 6 hands we tie, 18 we have 3 outs, 10 we're drawing dead, and 4 we have 8 outs. On average, against the 32 hands that beat us, we have about 3 outs. (AA and JJ should be discounted, but I think 88 and 66 should be emphasized).

You have to assign at least some probability that we're leading against something like AQ. Not exactly proportionate to the number of combinations in the deck, but you're definitely not _always_ behindOn the side of folding,You also need to account for hte probability of having a lot of your 'outs' dirty, in the event that the other player calling between has a flush draw, or the pair that you're hoping will counterfeit the villain in question.

[Canada 0]

18 we have 3 outs.

Try again

[MrNiceGuy 0]

18 we have 3 outs.

Try again

Good catch; I fixed my post.I think it's a close decision. I'm still leaning towards folding because I think we're almost never ahead (I think AQ is an unlikely holding for MP), and because BB hanging around means we might not win when we do improve to beat MP, plus we're not even closing the action on the turn (although I think a raise from BB is highly unlikely).

[Sysvr4 0]

yuck

You think it's really that bad? An uber-passive guy just check-raised the field in a 3-way pot on the turn. I'd say folding > calling but it's prolly fairly close. I think in a HU pot I'm more inclined to call this down despite the pot being smaller... MNG makes a good point about BB hanging around. That almost certainly reduces our equity even further.Jeff

[10101 0]

just rated all of my players for teh first time, I hadn't done it because I wasn't sure what rules to use. and did not realize that tehre were default rulesthanks alpha

Man...where can I find those default rules. I've had PT for a month and still can't figure it out.

[Canada 0]

just rated all of my players for teh first time, I hadn't done it because I wasn't sure what rules to use. and did not realize that tehre were default rulesthanks alpha

Man...where can I find those default rules. I've had PT for a month and still can't figure it out.

I wouldn't bother.I had them for a while, but basing your decisions on the numbers without the distraction of the icons is a lot healthier

[Smasharoo 0]

You also need to account for hte probability of having a lot of your 'outs' dirty, in the event that the other player calling between has a flush draw, or the pair that you're hoping will counterfeit the villain in question.Maybe they both have AA.good luck.

[Abbaddabba 0]

... Yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from. Because it's completely unreasonable to expect someone calling with a flush draw or second pair.