Actuary 3 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 villans stat are just like mine , a SLAP, 21/8/1.5 over 2500 handsc/r flop? 3-bet it?Bet/fold river ?i'm so used to losing now, I just hope my hand holds upParty Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: SuxAtPoker is UTG+1 with A:diamond:, Q:club:. 1 fold, SuxAtPoker calls.Flop: (7.50 SB) 2:diamond:, 7:spade:, Q:heart: (2 players)SuxAtPoker bets, SuxAtPoker calls.Turn: (5.75 BB) 4:club: (2 players)SuxAtPoker checks, Button bets, SuxAtPoker calls.River: (7.75 BB) 4:diamond: (2 players)SuxAtPoker checks... Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 i defiantly 3 bet the flop and reevaluate if he caps/callsif he caps then im very afraid he has aces, kings Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 take a shot of whiskey then call him downthen if you lose take another Link to post Share on other sites
thecamelot 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 i defiantly 3 bet the flop and reevaluate if he caps/callsYeah, agreed - easy 3-bet. Link to post Share on other sites
finztotheleft 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 take a shot of whiskey then call him downthen if you lose take anotherThis is what I would've done. Unfortunately, I fear Matt's suggestion is what I should've done. Oops ! Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 i defiantly 3 bet the flop and reevaluate if he caps/callsif he caps then im very afraid he has aces, kingsplease tell me specifically what you would do on the later streets?given a call or cap?Are we not showing this down if he caps?I don't know what re-evaluate means. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 You're way ahead/way behind. Do you want him to fold JJ or QJ to your flop 3bet, or can you handle not knowing where you are in the hand for another 30 seconds and making a bit of extra money when you are ahead?And the player's preflop numbers just look too high to fold this Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 You're way ahead/way behind. Do you want him to fold JJ or QJ to your flop 3bet, or can you handle not knowing where you are in the hand for another 30 seconds and making a bit of extra money when you are ahead?And the player's preflop numbers just look too high to fold thisthat was my thinking.he's not raising a draw on the flop.he might be raising AK, 99-JJ, or AA-QQI'm not good at figuirng the math out on the fly, whether or not there are enough combinations I'm good against..however, I felt I had to at least call down; but no reason to slow villan down on this drawless board.Betting the river is a tool for WA/WB, if it's more likely you're ahead (I think). But I hate to Bet/Fold here, so I checked. Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Reed 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Villian has shown aggression pre-flop and on your flop bet, that's enough for me to check/ call here. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Actuary,c/r that flop.Lead the turn if he calls.check/call down if he 3-bets. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 i defiantly 3 bet the flop and reevaluate if he caps/callsif he caps then im very afraid he has aces, kingsplease tell me specifically what you would do on the later streets?given a call or cap?Are we not showing this down if he caps?I don't know what re-evaluate means.sorry....If he caps it becomes more read dependent. Does he get over aggressive on hands often? If he is willing to cap that then Im going to put him on 4 likely holdings, aa,kk, qq, aq. Of the 4 you tie one, lose to 3. If the player was reasonably solid as you say then i may be more inclined to give him credit for a big hand then if it was a donkeyIf he just calls, I bet/call the turnIf he raises the turn then i c/c the river Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 Actuary,c/r that flop.Lead the turn if he calls.check/call down if he 3-bets.please give more reason to why you like c/r flop.What about this particular hand make it the best play?thanks.This is a very common situation so if there is a best paly, I want to know it.And there are 3 diff views in this thread:WA/WB3-bet flop (although, that camp might prefer a c/r, instead ??)C/R flop Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I think I'm in the check-raise camp, though it is a WA/WB situation. If we're ahead, I think we can afford to give a free card here if villain decides to get weird and check the flop. The only problem is that we might lose JJ and TT on the turn with this line, but hey...it has more visibility for us...less for him. And, we all know that visibility is nice. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 While it is somewhat of a wa/wb, you are wa more often than wb.Just check/calling down really doesn't get as much in the pot as you'd like.Since it's HU, villian is likely to call you down with say TT, or at least call to the river with AK. Raising the flop is likely to keep him in, whereas aggression on later streets is more likely to fold his hand when he is wb, or cause you to lose money when you're wb. Link to post Share on other sites
amarillotg 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Actuary,c/r that flop.Lead the turn if he calls.check/call down if he 3-bets.beautiful line. let him keep the lead. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 If you bet out and get raised, I'd rather let the villain take the lead because I only want to get 2 big bets in at most considering the strength he's shown, and I can also check raise if a Q or A comes off. I like this play.But if you had checkraised the flop, you could be more sure of how to play the later streets. If he just calls the raise then you obviously need to bet out on the turn and river. If he 3bets then that's a much clearer indication you're behind than just a raise, and with a good read on him you can even check-fold the turn.Either play makes sense to me, and both are compatible with being way ahead/way behind (but putting in 4 small bets on the flop or 2 big bets on the turn or river would not be.) Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 Guest:sign up!you seem smawt.are you the pro Dan was talking about? Link to post Share on other sites
TJ_Eckleburg 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Haven't read replies.My man. You've gotta stop this negativity. See what it's making you do?Do you suck at poker because you're not winning money or do you suck at poker because you're in a bad mood, scared to lose, and not INSTA 3-betting this flop?I'm not winning a lot of money either! I still know a lot (but not everything) about poker, and I know enough about life AND poker to know that if you stay negative, self-deprecating, and unhappy, it'll show in your results.3-bet this flop. You're better than this. Link to post Share on other sites
TJ_Eckleburg 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Having read replies...Check/raise is good too... if not better I daresay. Either way... establish your presence on the flop.Make him FEAR your bets and FEAR your checks. When you fold, it's because YOU know something he doesn't.You definitely know more about t-tests and chi-squares than he does. Link to post Share on other sites
fish43 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 3-bet the flop, call the cap, and lead the turn. Then if he raises, go into call down mode. Link to post Share on other sites
akishore 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 actuary,you played this hand perfectly. c/c river easy.i strongly disagree with a flop c/r. it lets him fold underpairs (JJ/TT/etc.) as well as unimproved aces on the turn when we lead out.by betting, he usually raises w/ 100% of his hands. let him keep the lead, c/c unimproved on the turn, and c/r if you improve on the turn.nh.aseem Link to post Share on other sites
TheCinciKid 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Without reading replies.I 3-bet the flop like it's my job. Lead the turn, bet the river also.If villain raises turn, go into calldown mode. Call a river raise. Link to post Share on other sites
amarillotg 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 i strongly disagree with a flop c/r. it lets him fold underpairs (JJ/TT/etc.) as well as unimproved aces on the turn when we lead out.by betting, he usually raises w/ 100% of his hands. let him keep the lead, c/c unimproved on the turn, and c/r if you improve on the turn.nh.aseemso your going to c/r the turn?if you your opponent has an unimproved ace of JJ/TT/etc what makes you think he's not going to check through the turn? Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Reed 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 i strongly disagree with a flop c/r. it lets him fold underpairs (JJ/TT/etc.) as well as unimproved aces on the turn when we lead out.by betting, he usually raises w/ 100% of his hands. let him keep the lead, c/c unimproved on the turn, and c/r if you improve on the turn.nh.aseemso your going to c/r the turn?if you your opponent has an unimproved ace of JJ/TT/etc what makes you think he's not going to check through the turn?Because it's a rare move at 50/1 unless he's a regular which you'd probably know. If it's JJ/TT he's still firing the turn bet. I agree with akishore's line here. Why c/r the flop and put an extra bet in when you could be way behind? Or even worse capping it? Hey if the villian isn't 3 betting preflop it's a different story, but at this point he's shown aggression already. Not to be wussing out, but why let AA or KK, cap the flop, raise the turn and then we finally slow down on river? Is the check/raise for value here? It's obviously not driving anyone out.I believe we're always trying to get maximum value from our hands, but sometimes you have to see what's there as well. There's legitimate reason to play cautiously given the 3-bet preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 all those suggestions for 3-bet and c/r's and here comes Aseem... see why I can't ever be sure! Given most of us (I hope) are winnig players ( yes, I am) it's amazing we can't all agree on a simple hand such as this. Makes me think decisions to play this one way or the other do not make the difference. Also, reminds me that if there weren't so many awful players, I wouldn't make much, if anything.Villan had JJ, he checked behind on river.soapbox warning...all of us in Micro would benefit from replying before reading other responses..and then (on the same response works well for me) ending with a response in consideration of the other replies, in case you saw something you had not thought of.We have several different people critiquing my hands and I LOVE THAT. I try to do what I can for your hands as well. My hope is we stay independent while learning from each other. for example, I'll always be looser pf than many of you. I'll see lots of "fold preflop" on my hands when I'm asking if the Turn riase was good. Months ago, that got me upset; but now, I just know that to that person, my preflop play was so horrendous he feels obliged to skip my real question and make this point. And I"m guilty of doing similarly to others.Finally, do some self analysis with your critiques. If you switch yuor allegiance to a certain strategy depending on who posted the hand and who's responded already, then your input is not necessary. Feel free to hold any opinion; but at least be consistent and unbiased towards the poster or other critiquers.thanks...it's late...maybe this gets under the radar. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now