brvheart, on 10 May 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:
No, of course not, I think there are plenty of "good" atheists. I just know kids, and kids are generally mean to someone at some point in their entire life... that's all.
Why are you treating this like he was a little kid? Sure, we all did things in kindergarten that wouldn't reflect well now. Bit kicked, called names, etc. But when we were 18? I can honestly say I did not refer to someone by a hateful name or physically assaulted anyone after the age of about 14 or so. And if I did, it was something I did with at least a fair amount of adult knowledge. Like I said, I don't think it should change anyone voting for the guy. It was almost 50 years ago, and most of us don't know what things were like in that environment. But I hold a rich, educated 18-year old violent offender to a higher standard than 'boys will be boys.'
David_Sklansky, on 12 May 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:
This is an interesting thread. I was actually sort of 50/50 in this election until this story came out, and now I am back to being a reluctant Obama voter.This is sort of what's so interesting about this topic. I never physically hurt anyone, and I certainly didn't attack people because they were weak or different. I was always a mouthy prick in school, so you can maybe say I am a bad person too, and I don't deny this. But I also don't think it's fair to look at our own history and personality, and then assume this is the way everyone should be, and expect no better from our leaders.There were tons of people in school, from all different outlooks, who were nice. Popular jock-type kids, abused nerds who easily could have been bitter, etc, none of whom would have beaten up a fag or a goth or whatever else, or even so much as talked shit about a cool kid. Because they were actual good people. These people do exist. We have no reason to assume Obama isn't one, and we know for sure that Romney isn't. If this is not a criteria that matters to you, I'm sure you'll vote for the team you have been rooting for, but I for one don't want someone like that making decisions that effect me.Side note: Brvheat, we are both shitty people. We laugh at ****ed up shit, have terrible values in general, etc. I don't know who here remembers, but I was a Christian until a few years ago, and acted even worse than I do now. I was a true, legit, born-again Christian. I remember in my phase of apostasy, I was pretty active here, and you made a post in a thread about It's Always Sunny that really hit home. Something about how it was funny, but you couldn't recommend it, because there was swearing or something totally meaningless to me. And I remember thinking how odd it was that we could admittedly like and laugh at a show that basically does nothing but display these absolutely atrocious humans and their atrocious, antisocial behavior and attitudes, but be turned off by some totally arbitrary neo-Christian bulletpoint complain. And it really hit me how shitty people like us -- strong Christians for so long -- were and always had been, and it was a really important moment for me recognizing fully how nonexistent the holy spirit really was for us.My point is, shitty people are shitty people, more or less. I wouldn't mind having a leader like Jimmy Carter or VB, and I would be terrified to have one like you, me or Mitt Romney. Just because we ourselves are terrible doesn't mean we shoulde excuse it in a position or power like that.
I think this was well said in that it reflects the reason a lot of non-religious people are that way. We do not feel 'touched' enough by the religious spirit that doing anything for the sake of religion seems forced and unnatural. I think many of us feel that for religious people to act the way they do, they must simply feel what they believe more strongly than us, because we could never imagine acting the way they do without a more deep sense of reason to do so.
Balloon guy, on 12 May 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:
Well I agree that one action 46 years ago should be enough to decide that you know a person enough to say what his core character is.43 years ago Barack Obama was attending a muslim school and eating dog meat.....
This was funny.
Long signatures are really annoying.