Top Two Pair...

[pocktdeuces 0]

2/5nl live. 200 max buyin. table is pretty loose. pretty poor players in general. No great reads, just loose, passive table.SB ($200)BB ($120)utg ($350)utg+1 ($180)mp1 ($50)mp2 ($200)hero ($450)lp2 ($$150)button($200)dealt to hero (10 , 9 )utg folds, utg+1 limps, mp1 folds, mp2 limps, hero limps, lp2 limps, sb completes, bb checks.flop ($29) 10 , 9 , 8 checks to hero. hero bets $30, lp2 calls, sb folds, bb calls, utg+1 calls, mp2 folds.turn ($149) 2 checks to hero, hero????results later. just wondering how you guys would play this. thanks for any input.Jesse

[Joker 0]

tough one.. I don't like to see that much of action with board like that. But i'm raising here about 80-100 and then make crying call if someone pushes.I think hand that beat you is slowplayed straight QJ, J7 with that board i wouldn't slowplay set or small straight w/ 67 after flop.. if someone did and win.. well then good for him. Callers probably have hands like TJ, 87, QT, 98 etc. and you have'em beat.. That's what i'd do.. and someone smarter will tell what is right thing to do here.

[crankin 0]

I'd bet a little less on the flop. Probably around $20. The two callers scare me. QJ doesn't have to be scared of the flush, so they would easily slow play in this spot. It would be bad for a set to slowplay here, but it does happen. As played, on the turn, I think you have to bet. I'd go with around $90 and see what happens. If you get raised, you probably have to lay it down. If you get called, I'd check/call a reasonable bet on the river.Another line that might be better here is to check/raise this flop. You'll get more information and/or take the pot down right there. If you get smooth called, I'd shut down.

[throwemaway 0]

I'd bet a little less on the flop. Probably around $20. The two callers scare me. QJ doesn't have to be scared of the flush, so they would easily slow play in this spot. It would be bad for a set to slowplay here, but it does happen. As played, on the turn, I think you have to bet. I'd go with around $90 and see what happens. If you get raised, you probably have to lay it down. If you get called, I'd check/call a reasonable bet on the river.Another line that might be better here is to check/raise this flop. You'll get more information and/or take the pot down right there. If you get smooth called, I'd shut down.

There is only one player to act behind him..Checking the flop would be awful

[Royal_Tour 0]

easy bet of 50 here, look at there stacks, they all have under 200., and 2 of which are under 150., they have invest 35 so far, another 50 and they are committed, so you get your final answers there.

[crankin 0]

There is only one player to act behind him..Checking the flop would be awful

Meh, my bad there. Didn't look at his position close enough. For some reason, thought he was closer to the front of the line with several people behind him. So, I agree that checking on the flop would be bad.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I'm betting the pot. I think we would've found out about a flopped straight on the turn. Players are crap; they all have a 10, J or 7 they're sitting on.

[crankin 0]

I'm betting the pot. I think we would've found out about a flopped straight on the turn. Players are crap; they all have a 10, J or 7 they're sitting on.

Really!? As a villain, you checked the nut straight and somebody bet the pot on the flop, and you don't want to give them a chance to keep it up? If I just check/call on the flop with the nut straight, my opponent probably figures I've either got a monster or I'm on the draw. If he thinks I've got a monster, then he wouldn't call if I led out anyway (and the check/call-flop lead-the-turn line looks like a monster). If he thinks I'm on the draw, then the 2 certainly didn't help and he's going to bet at me again to get me off the draw. At which point I'm more than happy to let him give me more money.Plus, while I know they exist, you have to have a special kind of table for 3 people to call a pot-sized bet on the draw there. Now, if there were a flush draw on the board as well, then you could have somebody with a big draw, and I could see them check/calling the flop bet.

[pocktdeuces 0]

does anyone else agree that betting $20 on the flop would have been better? i figured with so many people in the pot, if i bet anything smaller, and got 1 caller, everyone else would have good odds to call to their straights, and i didnt want that happening. Jesse

[Joker 0]

does anyone else agree that betting $20 on the flop would have been better? i figured with so many people in the pot, if i bet anything smaller, and got 1 caller, everyone else would have good odds to call to their straights, and i didnt want that happening. Jesse

i don't know if its better than $30 but i think anywhere between $20-$30 is fine. But bet under $20 is a suicide here because that might give odds for hands like KQ draw for gutshot.

[iggymcfly 0]

Playing live, I think $30 is fine. You've got a good hand that you want to get money in the pot with, and I don't think that bet will scare away action from good hands. On the turn, I'd bet something like 80 so the open-enders aren't getting the right price to draw, and you can pot-commit any one with a hand.

[Royal_Tour 0]

does anyone else agree that betting $20 on the flop would have been better? i figured with so many people in the pot, if i bet anything smaller, and got 1 caller, everyone else would have good odds to call to their straights, and i didnt want that happening. Jesse

?? huh?No 30 is better than 20

[tallytownFSU 0]

If he has QJ, ship it and say nice pot.I like a push on the turn here for a multitude of reasoning. - We don't have any fold equity - The stacks are so small you should be betting $100 on the turn to put them all in.If it's a loose passive table, you may get called in both spots with both different draws. Let's just hope they don't hit.

[pocktdeuces 0]

so anyways, i made an $80 bet on the turn, lp2 pushed for $115 total, and it folded to me, who had to call. he showed J7 off for the flopped straight. i was just asking this question to see if anyone thought that pretty much shutting down on the turn was a good idea. i guess its not really though, because at least a couple of them had to be drawing. thanks for the reply's.Jesse

[The Nuts 0]

The flop bet should have been lower. A player who will call a $20 bet will call a $30 bet as well. That extra $10 won't force anybody to fold that would call anyways. It just sweetens the pot for later on if any of your opponents hit their draws later on.I'm worried more about the first caller than the later ones here. The other ones may have just called due to the odds being offered since there were callers in front. If the first caller had a draw, he wouldn't have the correct odds to call a pot-sized bet.If he's willing to call a pot sized bet like that and he only limped, gotta narrow down the hand selection:Possible:KJ, QJ, JT, QT, KT, J7, T9, T8Unlikely:TT, 99, 88, AT, A9, A8One of them has a pretty solid hand and the others have a draw and are going along for the ride.Bet hard on the turn. If you face any resistance, fold.

[pocktdeuces 0]

The flop bet should have been lower. A player who will call a $20 bet will call a $30 bet as well. That extra $10 won't force anybody to fold that would call anyways. It just sweetens the pot for later on if any of your opponents hit their draws later on.I'm worried more about the first caller than the later ones here. The other ones may have just called due to the odds being offered since there were callers in front. If the first caller had a draw, he wouldn't have the correct odds to call a pot-sized bet.If he's willing to call a pot sized bet like that and he only limped, gotta narrow down the hand selection:Possible:KJ, QJ, JT, QT, KT, J7, T9, T8Unlikely:TT, 99, 88, AT, A9, A8One of them has a pretty solid hand and the others have a draw and are going along for the ride.Bet hard on the turn. If you face any resistance, fold.

i like your thinking here. i made the larger bet because i didnt want a hand like KQ, T6 calling me. hands that might call for a cheap draw but not pot sized bet. you say bet hard on the turn, and fold if i see any resistance...but any resistance and i am going to be getting great odds on my call so i have to make it. it just seems like there should be a way to get away from this hand relatively cheaply if i am beaten.Jesse

[holyfield 0]

personally that looked like a very easy hand to get away from to me. I know im new here but i saw this post when i was browsing and had to sign up. I know you guys dont know me but i am a very strong player i hope you understand my lengthy explanation. firstly you all limped preflop. while top 2 pair with that flop is a strong hand, there were many other players in the hand, 4 left after the bet. hard to eliminate hands here, i wouldnt personally(pertinent hands with that flop are all still in play even with no raising preflop), could probably eliminate KQ saying someone would have raised but that is unimportant since a Q with any kicker is about jsut as good here, J still gives a straight that will surely win the hand.the bet on the flop was a good decision because you want people to fold and to gain some information. seeing as everyone checked to you except lb2 who was yet to act, after you bet and got called by everyone it should have told you a few things, my hand is probably second strongest at this point is one thing. also I dont know what lb2 has fully because he just smooth called(one i would think most likely has me beat) when it came to him, i would have assumed he either flopped the straight, spiked a set(very strong hands) or he had top pair with a straight draw or a weaker 2 pair(strong but weaker than yours atm) since there were 2 people acting behind him. the other guys who checked, if they actually had strong hands i dont see how they would not raise in this spot so i put them both on draws, and i assume one is playing something no sane person would(keep in mind hands like yours can complete the top set). if im your opponents(bb, utg+1) i have a strong hand, check it and then get a 30$ bet that is called im definitely reraising here to get value and protect my hand and gain more information. you never want that many callers in especially with that kind of flop because its a vulernable hand even if you have the nuts at this point. when the turn comes no help to anyone, since lb2 is the only person im really worried about and have the least information about at this spot i check to see what he does, you may see this as weakness but it lets you see how he acts, and then see how the other 2 callers react, and you dont trap yourself. it also lets you possibly see the result cheaply or get away from the hand if you need, no shame folding 2 pair in this situation. i wouldnt even dream of calling here if either of the other guys called a bet from lb2. also if he checks and you did have the strongest hand here, you will know that going into the river(easily see if opponents could improve) or if you had a brave(stupid) soul with a stronger hand he is slowplaying its a lot cheaper and allows your hand one last chance to improve. dont try to make massive profit on vulernable and dangerous flops with mediocre hands.always remember if you did actually have the strongest hand here and someone makes a huge bluff and you lay it down, eventually that type of play will come back to haunt them, all i do is fold this hand and wait til i get my set or straight and check it to the river waiting for them to hand me their money.here you rely on poker sense if he makes a bet and the other two fold to decided if you want to call or not. do remember calling the bet on the turn is probably also going to mean calling a bet on the river, depending on how much i know about my opponent i either fold now because i know whether he has me or not it will be too expensive to see or i play it and play the way i think will let me get off cheapest.

[pocktdeuces 0]

personally that looked like a very easy hand to get away from to me. I know im new here but i saw this post when i was browsing and had to sign up. I know you guys dont know me but i am a very strong player i hope you understand my lengthy explanation. firstly you all limped preflop. while top 2 pair with that flop is a strong hand, there were many other players in the hand, 4 left after the bet. hard to eliminate hands here, i wouldnt personally(pertinent hands with that flop are all still in play even with no raising preflop), could probably eliminate KQ saying someone would have raised but that is unimportant since a Q with any kicker is about jsut as good here, J still gives a straight that will surely win the hand.the bet on the flop was a good decision because you want people to fold and to gain some information. seeing as everyone checked to you except lb2 who was yet to act, after you bet and got called by everyone it should have told you a few things, my hand is probably second strongest at this point is one thing. also I dont know what lb2 has fully because he just smooth called(one i would think most likely has me beat) when it came to him, i would have assumed he either flopped the straight, spiked a set(very strong hands) or he had top pair with a straight draw or a weaker 2 pair(strong but weaker than yours atm) since there were 2 people acting behind him. the other guys who checked, if they actually had strong hands i dont see how they would not raise in this spot so i put them both on draws, and i assume one is playing something no sane person would(keep in mind hands like yours can complete the top set). if im your opponents(bb, utg+1) i have a strong hand, check it and then get a 30$ bet that is called im definitely reraising here to get value and protect my hand and gain more information. you never want that many callers in especially with that kind of flop because its a vulernable hand even if you have the nuts at this point. when the turn comes no help to anyone, since lb2 is the only person im really worried about and have the least information about at this spot i check to see what he does, you may see this as weakness but it lets you see how he acts, and then see how the other 2 callers react, and you dont trap yourself. it also lets you possibly see the result cheaply or get away from the hand if you need, no shame folding 2 pair in this situation. i wouldnt even dream of calling here if either of the other guys called a bet from lb2. also if he checks and you did have the strongest hand here, you will know that going into the river(easily see if opponents could improve) or if you had a brave(stupid) soul with a stronger hand he is slowplaying its a lot cheaper and allows your hand one last chance to improve. dont try to make massive profit on vulernable and dangerous flops with mediocre hands.always remember if you did actually have the strongest hand here and someone makes a huge bluff and you lay it down, eventually that type of play will come back to haunt them, all i do is fold this hand and wait til i get my set or straight and check it to the river waiting for them to hand me their money.here you rely on poker sense if he makes a bet and the other two fold to decided if you want to call or not. do remember calling the bet on the turn is probably also going to mean calling a bet on the river, depending on how much i know about my opponent i either fold now because i know whether he has me or not it will be too expensive to see or i play it and play the way i think will let me get off cheapest.

i just dont see how checking and possibly giving the bb and utg a free card is the right play. and what if lp2 was on a draw as well...then i could be giving a free card to all 3 of them. i just dont see how that can be the correct action.Jesse

[holyfield 0]

i just dont see how checking and possibly giving the bb and utg a free card is the right play. and what if lp2 was on a draw as well...then i could be giving a free card to all 3 of them. i just dont see how that can be the correct action.Jesse

its the right play because of how dangerous of a board that is and the fact that you all limped. with that many players left the odds of someone already having a straight are good with a 10, 9, 8.....you have your hand overvalued, its just two pair. i would stay in the hand but unless i saw some weakness i would want to get out of it as cheaply as possible and not walk into someone who has had a made hand since the flop. with 4 people in i would expect someone with the ignorant end of the straight to be the one protecting his investment, not two pair. while ive seen two pair win hands like this plenty i wouldnt recommend being the aggressor here, let someone either show their strength or bluff, dont trap yourself for them.

[anyone1 0]

This is ugly. I don't think you have the potential to make very much on this hand and all the potential in the world to lose a ton.. I'd probably bet 55 on the flop and give up if I got more than one caller. As played I'd check behind on the turn and call something moderate if the river bricks... Too much to lose in this hand. I think you can find a better spot.

[gooch 0]

If I had QJ I'd be slow playing that like a mofo

[DrZebra 0]

this is the funniest thread yet!this is 2/5 200 MAX!!!!!!!200!!!!you flopped top two in a donkish crowd of calling stations who all agreed to play shortstack poker.toss in a black chip on this turn.next time, bump it preflop...holyfield is verygood player had to sign up to post this hand he saw very good opportunity talk about hand. easy check/fold on the flop.

[Zach6668 513]

this is the funniest thread yet!this is 2/5 200 MAX!!!!!!!200!!!!you flopped top two in a donkish crowd of calling stations who all agreed to play shortstack poker.toss in a black chip on this turn.next time, bump it preflop...holyfield is verygood player had to sign up to post this hand he saw very good opportunity talk about hand. easy check/fold on the flop.

**** it.Push the turn.Reload if you lose.

[jjgoldy5 0]

Are we dropping this hand on the flop against strong resistance?For instance, a bet of 30, raise to 90, and a smooth call all before it gets to us?

[donkeypunch 0]

This is ugly. I don't think you have the potential to make very much on this hand and all the potential in the world to lose a ton.. I'd probably bet 55 on the flop and give up if I got more than one caller. As played I'd check behind on the turn and call something moderate if the river bricks... Too much to lose in this hand. I think you can find a better spot.

I agree with this one. Even with the pot sized bet on the flop, two callers is a scary situation given what was on the board. I would have checked the turn and let it go if crazy s*** happened. If the river came free with a blank, check on the river and worry about a min bet.DP