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is fold an option, or am i being weak? (limit he)


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#1 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:12 PM

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is SB with 2:spade:, 5:spade:. UTG calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.Flop: (6 SB) 2:heart:, 6:spade:, 7:spade: (6 players)Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds.Turn: (5 BB) 3:spade: (4 players)Hero bets, CO calls $1.50 (All-In), Hero ___, ...one player left to act behind me.i mean, if i'm up against a higher flush, i have one out at best. this game is a little on the loose/passive side, so that raise really does make me think i'm up against a bigger flush.pot's not huge, i have at best one out if i'm behind.folding isn't terrible? or should i really be calling down and keeping him honest?assuming i just call (do some of you advocate three-betting here??) and UTG just calls behind me, how do you play a brick river? just check/call a bet from MP2 (go for an overcall from UTG)?aseem
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#2 KDawgCometh

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:18 PM

dude, you have a flush, I'm three betting, calling a cap and check calling a non spade river. this is so unbelievably weak tight if you are even considering folding. YOu lead the flop, so he probably doesn't expect you to have a flush, so he may have a lesser hand
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#3 jayboogie

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:22 PM

I 3 bet and call it down if capped in most situations. No way you can fold here, if your read on him is a flush, you may with a very strong read not 3 bet and just call it down. Folding here is crazy though, some hands are just coolers and your paying them off.

#4 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:22 PM

i guess i can add the game was pretty damn passive, and this player in particular was passive enough to not raise top pair on the flop on two hands i had seen.i didn't fold, i just called and check/called a brick river.without saying the results, i'm wondering if i was being weak/tight in NOT three-betting the turn or taking my hand too far in a small pot against a passive player's raise, OR if just calling down was okay sice my hand is strong but the passive player waking up doesn't always mean i'm beat (but it might often enough to not three-bet).aseem
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#5 KDawgCometh

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:26 PM

akishore said:

i guess i can add the game was pretty damn passive, and this player in particular was passive enough to not raise top pair on the flop on two hands i had seen.i didn't fold, i just called and check/called a brick river.without saying the results, i'm wondering if i was being weak/tight in NOT three-betting the turn or taking my hand too far in a small pot against a passive player's raise, OR if just calling down was okay sice my hand is strong but the passive player waking up doesn't always mean i'm beat (but it might often enough to not three-bet).aseem
a passive player will raise with two pair, I have a flush, I raise the turn, its pretty simple and you missed some extra value
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#6 princeof56k

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:27 PM

Some guy with 45 hitting his straight makes a raise there too, and even people with 2 pair or set raise there as well. A 3-bet is probably in order. The only reason I can see not to raise is if you believe by calling you can extract more from UTG and make more money off the hand that way because hes more likely to stay in if you call and possibly get trapped for 2 bets on the river.

#7 jayboogie

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:31 PM

akishore said:

i guess i can add the game was pretty damn passive, and this player in particular was passive enough to not raise top pair on the flop on two hands i had seen.i didn't fold, i just called and check/called a brick river.without saying the results, i'm wondering if i was being weak/tight in NOT three-betting the turn or taking my hand too far in a small pot against a passive player's raise, OR if just calling down was okay sice my hand is strong but the passive player waking up doesn't always mean i'm beat (but it might often enough to not three-bet).aseem
You would need to have a very strong read on a player to not 3 bet the turn. These would be the players that play any 2 suited cards. Really it comes down to your read and your instincts, I like to go with my instincts in these situations as to what I do. The more faith your able to put into your instincts, the easier these decisions become to make.

#8 custom36

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:45 PM

Aseem, I haven't read the replies because it tends to affect my advice (I'm trying to see how good I really am :club:).But, how possible is it that the guy slowplayed (or turned) 2 pair or a set, or even has an overpair or top pair? I seriously think you're beeing weak/tight here, especially if you think folding is even an option. You're in there to make a weird 2 pair, a straight, or a flush. You made your flush, the best of the 3 options, you should be in there 3-betting it. I really don't think you're up against a higher flush and I'm willing to pay one off here.If he does cap, I'm check calling any river that isn't a spade. If it's a spade and he bets, then I consider folding. However, right now I don't think it's even an option.

#9 econ_tim

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:14 PM

4 :club: redraw, baby!
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#10 MrNiceGuy

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:55 PM

I think it's a lot closer than other posters are suggesting.Villain could have one of:28 flushes54 two pair (but he probably wouldn't have limped with most of these hands)12 sets12 straightsHe would definitely play a flush this way. He might play the other hands this way, but not necessarily, because he may be concerned with the spade hitting, or because he might have raised the flop.I almost think the best line would be to call the turn raise, and then bet/call any safe looking river. This way, you're more likely to get an overcall from UTG on the turn, and you don't risk getting 3-bet. (If UTG would've folded facing two bets, but would call one, then you don't lose anything this way).
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#11 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:57 PM

thanks, mrNG.aseem
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#12 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:59 PM

to stress what mrNG is saying,it's closer than it seems, and i don't think three-betting is the best option. maybe i haven't emphasized enough how confident i felt i was beat by the turn raise, specifically from that player.i just don't think he would raise two pair on that turn to the same extent that he would raise a flush. same thing for a straight, but that becomes closer.at the time of the hand and when i wrote the original post, i was actually torn between calling down and folding in this small/medium pot, and i was so sure i was beat at that time that three-betting didn't even seem like an option.then again, it's about the long run, so i want to make sure i'm not missing value by not three-betting here.aseem
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