Kk Midway In The 50k Noon Tournament On Stars

[Al Smooth 0]

I can't seem to get the converter to work today for whatever reason...sorry guys. I'll do my best to make the HH readable.$50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2007/08/10 - 17:13:38 (ET)Seat 1: BB. Villian (29367 in chips) Seat 2: (11472 in chips) Seat 3: Hero (22685 in chips) Seat 5: (31300 in chips) Seat 6: (14980 in chips) Seat 7: (12712 in chips) Seat 8: Button (20431 in chips) Seat 9: SB (11038 in chips) Villian: posts the ante 50utg: posts the ante 50HERO: posts the ante 50: posts the ante 50: posts the ante 50: posts the ante 50: posts the ante 50: posts the ante 50SB: posts small blind 300Villian: posts big blind 600utg: calls 600HERO: is dealt [Kh Kc] raises 1200 to 1800: folds : folds : folds : folds : folds Villian: calls 1200UTG: folds Pot is t3900*** FLOP *** [Js Jc 4d]Villian: checks HERO: bets 2400Villian: calls 2400Pot is t8700*** TURN *** [Js Jc 4d] [5d]Villian: checks HERO: bets 4200Villian: raises 4200 to 8400Pot is t21300Hero has about 10k left in his stack and a sickening decision.WTF do you do? Are the Hero's Kings good here? What range of hands can the Villian have to make this play? Can you simply call this CR on the turn? How many of you fold and how many of you Ship it?

[Shaffer 0]

Hero has about 10k left in his stack and a sickening decision.WTF do you do? Are the Hero's Kings good here? Can you simply call this CR on the turn? How many of you fold and how many of you Ship it?

Gross. I probably fold here, unless villian has displayed serious maniac tendencies. You still have room left to play and I give props to anyone that min-raises there without a Jack, because it sure looks like one.

[rdtedm 0]

I probably fold here, a jack is definitely in his range, and it looks like he's value betting it.

[gobears 0]

My range for villain is AJ/AdKd/AdQd/PP/KJ/QJ/J10 - he might be putting you on AK/AQ if he's bluffing I don't think that I ship it here as he's only calling with a jack. Since you have position, if you're going to play the hand, I'd call and be prepared to call the river. If he's bluffing or betting a worse PP, you make more this way.It's a sick spot as you have 14k left if you fold or 20bb's so you can recover if you fold here. I just think that a PP is in his range that you're ahead of since no high cards have hit the board.

[woguy213 0]

Your first mistake was getting yourself into that awful spot in the first place. Check the turn...What is the purpose of betting? What hands is he calling the flop with other than a jack or a pocket pair? You are in a spot where you are either way ahead or way behind. If you are behind, you give yourself a chance to possibly catch up by hitting your miracle king on the river, which you've now seen for free. You would also keep the pot small enough that you can now call his lead bet on the river if you miss (which probably would have been about 4k). If you're ahead, you are most likely way ahead (i.e. two outer) and are not giving up that much EV by giving a free river card. As it played, you have to fold, I think there's only a very, very small chance he's bluffing here.

[armen13 0]

Two questions for you Al.1- You hven't mentioned any read, have you seen him play any hands before?2- Are you receiving your hand history via email? If so I beleive I can tell you how to get the converter to work.

[Al Smooth 0]

Two questions for you Al.1- You hven't mentioned any read, have you seen him play any hands before?2- Are you receiving your hand history via email? If so I beleive I can tell you how to get the converter to work.

The read is this...the Villian is me. I just thought it was an interesting hand to discuss, so I told it from the other side. So there's your read...do I have a Jack or not?

[tskillz187 0]

My range for villain is AJ/AdKd/AdQd/PP/KJ/QJ/J10 - he might be putting you on AK/AQ if he's bluffing I don't think that I ship it here as he's only calling with a jack. Since you have position, if you're going to play the hand, I'd call and be prepared to call the river. If he's bluffing or betting a worse PP, you make more this way.It's a sick spot as you have 14k left if you fold or 20bb's so you can recover if you fold here. I just think that a PP is in his range that you're ahead of since no high cards have hit the board.

Yeah I pretty much agree with everything in this post. Calling is > Shipping.

[armen13 0]

Ok first of all I think it's a great spot for a float against a thinking opponent. Not sure if the 50$ generic hero qualifies or not.So there's 21k in pot 14k behind. A call here leaves hero with 10k facing possibly a big bet on river. Any bet on river is likely to be for the 10k. So he has to decide now to go with the hand or not. I think Villain's range can be wider here than we are assuming:I would add AA, 44, to Gobears range, but also a bunch of little suited connectors and lesser Jacks could be included as the bluff component. Running this straight through pokerstove won't give us good results since non-jack hands are less likely. So I've simmulated this by reducing some of the hands that I would like to include but with less probabilityBoard: Js Jc 4d 5dDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 38.292% 37.53% 00.76% 6540 132.00 { KK }Hand 1: 61.708% 60.95% 00.76% 10620 132.00 { KK+, JJ, 88-44, AJs, KJs, QJs, JTs, 65s, 54s, AJo, KJo, QJo, JTo }Again this is rough calc and these numbers can vary greatly, but even including SOME of the non-jack hands gives us almost 40% equity in a situation which we would be getting 3:2 pot odds which is not realy any big overlay (and I'm being generous with the non jack hands ). So I think on balance this should be a fold but in the 50$ you will get repopped often.

[Shaffer 0]

I have decided that I hate the turn bet. Checking the turn and calling a bet on the river (or giving a value bet if checked to) gives much better results.If villian has a J, you lose no more than you do on this line. You show weakness on the turn and villian will likely give a small value bet on the river. Plus, not for nothing, if you catch the miracle K on the river, you've just stacked him.If villian has a smaller pocket pair, they are unlikely to call bets on both the turn and the river; your check on the turn will induce a bet on the river. At least breakeven.If villian has air (a kind of delayed resteal where they have faded your flop bet with the intent of bluffing later), your turn check will induce a bluff on the river, and you profit.As played, I have no idea if villian has a J or not, and I don't know if anyone will. If it's a bluff, it's a good one that would give me a lot of pause and probably cause me to let go of a quality holding.

[YBravo 0]

The read is this...the Villian is me. I just thought it was an interesting hand to discuss, so I told it from the other side. So there's your read...do I have a Jack or not?

This hand is pretty much impossible to comment on without your image at the time and the villain's (guy who had KK) image. That said...If you're being active and mixing it up a lot post-flop, I def call/ship it in. If you're playing tight, I think it's a fold, because we're only ahead of QQ. If I'm readless, I probably fold to a pretty standard slowplay line.

[WhatArunAA 0]

the way you played it will get a good player to fold KK.. but in these tournies there isnt very many GOOD players.. so unless the person is a good player I wouldnt be making advanced plays.. (i.e. Floating)

[The Nuts 0]

Villain has put in 11K of his stack. I believe it was David Sklansky who said a big raise which leaves an opening for a larger bet on a later street is more dangerous and suspicious than an all-in shove.I fold here. The reason being is because villain is shoving the river. Absolutely no doubt about it. And you're likely priced in to call a river shove with your hand. Essentially, he's risking 4200 more on the turn and you're risking the rest of your stack. Get out while you can.

[Al Smooth 0]

Villain has put in 11K of his stack. I believe it was David Sklansky who said a big raise which leaves an opening for a larger bet on a later street is more dangerous and suspicious than an all-in shove.I fold here. The reason being is because villain is shoving the river. Absolutely no doubt about it. And you're likely priced in to call a river shove with your hand. Essentially, he's risking 4200 more on the turn and you're risking the rest of your stack. Get out while you can.

This is exactly the alarm that one would think would go off if check min raised on the turn AFTER being check called on that flop. The question is, are you good enough to lay down KK in this spot? It's an easy thing to say on a strat forum, but if faced with this decision four hours into an online tournament, after committing 40% of your stack, it it an equitable lay down?

[WhatArunAA 0]

This is exactly the alarm that one would think would go off if check min raised on the turn AFTER being check called on that flop. The question is, are you good enough to lay down KK in this spot? It's an easy thing to say on a strat forum, but if faced with this decision four hours into an online tournament, after committing 40% of your stack, it it an equitable lay down?

Do your research on the player before you make the move.

[tskillz187 0]

This is exactly the alarm that one would think would go off if check min raised on the turn AFTER being check called on that flop. The question is, are you good enough to lay down KK in this spot? It's an easy thing to say on a strat forum, but if faced with this decision four hours into an online tournament, after committing 40% of your stack, it it an equitable lay down?

Obv getting shoved at on the river if you hold KK, that's why if you think you're ahead you just call instead of shoving.

[MONSTERHANDS 0]

first of all, u shd never ever raise so little with pocket kings. i feel the hero should have made a bigger raise. his stack was 20+k. maybe a 10k raise would have been great. on of the things u hate most when u have pocket pairs is when u allow people to see the flop. u should always bet strong. if u raised on a turn, u shd nvr check because it shows weakness ( unless we are talking abt traps of course ) villian capitalised on that and sensed weakness and raised the hero and the hero would probably fold.

[StupidKid 0]

first of all, u shd never ever raise so little with pocket kings. i feel the hero should have made a bigger raise. his stack was 20+k. maybe a 10k raise would have been great. on of the things u hate most when u have pocket pairs is when u allow people to see the flop. u should always bet strong. if u raised on a turn, u shd nvr check because it shows weakness ( unless we are talking abt traps of course ) villian capitalised on that and sensed weakness and raised the hero and the hero would probably fold.

Are you genuinely advocating raising to 10K preflop?This is bad.Also I don't really understand you're other points. Grammar is your friend.

[Al Smooth 0]

lol @ the suggested 10k preflop raise here with KK.

[Uniqueuponhim 0]

Are you genuinely advocating raising to 10K preflop?This is bad.Also I don't really understand you're other points. Grammar is your friend.

I'm inclined to say this guy may be a gimmick account. Either way, he isn't worth listening to.

[armen13 0]

Al we need some closure on this.....

[armen13 0]

Ok here is a very simmilar hand. Players are 3rd and 5th in chips with 33 remaining, just past the bubble :UTG (t125499)UTG+1 (t48849)MP1 (t122749)MP2 (t66952)CO (t55226)Button (t53970)Donkey #1 (t136798)BB (Donkey #2) (t144093)Preflop: Donkey #2 is BB with Kc, Ks. 6 folds, Donkey #1 completes, BB (Donkey #2) raises to t12000, Donkey #1 calls t8000.Flop: (t24800) Jd, 5c, 4c (2 players)Donkey #1 checks, Donkey #2 bets t14000, Donkey #1 calls t14000.Turn: (t52800) 4h (2 players)Donkey #1 checks, Donkey #2 bets t35500, Donkey #1 raises to t110398, Donkey #2 ???

[GWCGWC 83]

Al we need some closure on this.....

also, did you REALLY limp UTG? I can see you doing this with AA, KK looking to r/r. Trying to see a cheap flop with 55?By the time we get to this level it gets aggressive. Basically, no limping, raise and re-raise is standard in pots. Blind vs Blind battles are knocking out 1/4 of the players. The limp UTG is just so weird that it may freeze the CO from raising or even playing A10os.

[armen13 0]

Al was in the BB, the UTG limper folded after initial raise.

[GWCGWC 83]

Al was in the BB, the UTG limper folded after initial raise.

I get all confused when hero is really villain and such.