rrumsey 0 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 8 players - View hand 843452The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterUTG+1: t1455 29.10 BBsHero (MP1): t1575 31.50 BBsMP2: t1095 21.90 BBsCO: t1775 35.50 BBsBTN: t1440 28.80 BBsSB: t2835 56.70 BBsBB: t1565 31.30 BBsUTG: t1760 35.20 BBsPre Flop: (t75) Hero is MP1 with J J 1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t125, Hero raises to t444, 3 folds, SB calls t419, 2 foldsFlop: (t1063) 4 6 K (2 players)SB bets t200, Hero calls t200Turn: (t1463) 6 (2 players)SB bets t200, Hero calls t200River: (t1863) 7 (2 players)SB bets t1991 all in, Hero folds Link to post Share on other sites
Chet Chetterson 0 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 IPITS, small bet-small bet-big bet is at least top pair in microstakes from my experience Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 6, 2010 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 IPITS, small bet-small bet-big bet is at least top pair in microstakes from my experienceyah i would agree. the question is do i call the flop IMO. granted i have "decent odds" to call but am only winning when villain is being totally retarded. turn imo if i call the flop i have to call the min turn and hope he just checks river imo Link to post Share on other sites
Chet Chetterson 0 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 I think the call to re-evaluate is fine. At the flop the donk bet could be a pair worse than yours Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 I always wonder about preflop in this spot considering stack size. If we 3bet here, there's still a bunch of flops that handcuff us and a cbet combined with preflop raise commits half our stack. We are definitely ahead here a lot, but is flatting the "safer" play? Or shoving? I just hate 3betting here and having to fold a gross flop. I'm so used to turbo 180s and I'd just shove this pre. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Sparco 2 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 I don't really like shoving pre - we're a bit too deep with quite a few people left to act and some chance of a big hand for the original raiser. I don't mind either flatting or 3-betting, but I think we could 3-bet much smaller if we do it - I'd go with 300-350 or so. My main goal with 3-betting would be to get the pot HU (where any fold equity we have is a nice extra) and I think a smaller 3-bet achieves that just as well, and gives us much more room to play postflop.As played, I probably play it the same postflop, even though my mouse finger itches to hero call the shove. Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 I don't mind the flat-flat-fold to a shove. His flop bet he could be floating anything. The turn bet usually means he really did hit the flop. The river shove is a pretty common "overbet" when they have a lock hand, like Chet said. The first two bets are often called "suck bets" and are designed to fill up the pot while presenting the intended caller with good odds to call, and many people will do so, largely because they aren't calculating implied odds. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 3 bet smaller if you're gonna 3 bet. 325-350.edit - As a default I'd probably just jam this. You're gonna get looked up by a ton worse in my experience.You've put in over half your stack by the river so I'm a bit meh on folding as played. Since he cold called the 3 bet from the SB I've no idea what to think. I'd be more comfortable call call calling vs UTG+1 Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 he's so hood I'd snap off the river b/c I'm a station Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 he's so hood I'd snap off the river b/c I'm a stationggeehh thats how i need to play! i mean i guess my problem with the hand is if i dont think he almost ever is bluffing i may need to be folding the turn. i doubt underpairs are firing 2 barrels that often. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 3 bet smaller if you're gonna 3 bet. 325-350.edit - As a default I'd probably just jam this. You're gonna get looked up by a ton worse in my experience.You've put in over half your stack by the river so I'm a bit meh on folding as played. Since he cold called the 3 bet from the SB I've no idea what to think. I'd be more comfortable call call calling vs UTG+1Bad logic, always. Just because we are getting more than 3-1 doesn't indicate the river is call. Like someone said earlier, small bet/small bet/big bet or shove is top pair or better 95% of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 I disagree that this betting pattern is top pair or better 95%+ . It varies a ton from player to player. In fact I don't think his range changes much at all on the river (if anything I'd guess his shoving river range is slightly weaker than his turn betting range) so really if you don't plan on calling the river, fold the turn. You're not really getting anywhere near the right price/implied odds on the turn.In general putting in so much of your stack and leaving yourself with 650 chips or so at this stage is fairly terrible. The blind increase will leave you with 6 BBs very soon and you're just gonna end up sticking it in behind very often.This hand plays out a little easier with a smaller 3 bet and much much easier by just shoving and getting snapped off by 77 Link to post Share on other sites
Chet Chetterson 0 Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Bad logic, always. Just because we are getting more than 3-1 doesn't indicate the river is call. Like someone said earlier, small bet/small bet/big bet or shove is top pair or better 95% of the time.If we didn't go with a bet sizing read he would be correct. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 I disagree that this betting pattern is top pair or better 95%+ . It varies a ton from player to player. In fact I don't think his range changes much at all on the river (if anything I'd guess his shoving river range is slightly weaker than his turn betting range) so really if you don't plan on calling the river, fold the turn. You're not really getting anywhere near the right price/implied odds on the turn.In general putting in so much of your stack and leaving yourself with 650 chips or so at this stage is fairly terrible. The blind increase will leave you with 6 BBs very soon and you're just gonna end up sticking it in behind very often.This hand plays out a little easier with a smaller 3 bet and much much easier by just shoving and getting snapped off by 77i think this is a great point. i think turn is a fold in hindsight Link to post Share on other sites
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