attempt to bet out with monstrous draw

[krup24 0]

Just wondering what you think of my flop raiseUTG ($78.85 ) - LAGMP ($212.30) - TCO ($46.40) - TAGBUTTON ($304.50) - very loose bully type, took me off of a few alreadyHERO ($201.95) - BB ($89.05) - LAGPreflop: Hero is SB with [10h], [Qh]. 1 fold, CO raises to $5, Button calls $5, Hero calls $4.5, BB calls $4, MP calls $3Flop: ($25) [9h], [Jh], [2s] (5 players)Hero checks, BB checks, MP bets $25, CO folds, Button calls $25, Hero raises 196.95 (All-In)

[Scott3705 0]

you're getting a call here. which isn't necessarily a bad thing. What do you think button is calling with? I think MP may have a hand like AQ and will probably fold. I don't know if the smooth call by button is a sing of strength here though.

[macphec 0]

Not too bad. I dont think we have a lot of fold equity here as it looks like we're up against an overpair and you just told him you're on a draw.He doesnt know it's a monster draw though. We're a slight fav vs an overpair and a dog to the nut flush draw and a set.Actually I like it because we want a call from AA here right? We're going to hit our draw over 60% of the time if we see 2 cards. We may even get a K high flush draw to foldIf we flat call and hit our flush on the turn it will likely prevent us from getting AA's stack.Good push

[krup24 0]

you're getting a call here. which isn't necessarily a bad thing. What do you think button is calling with? I think MP may have a hand like AQ and will probably fold. I don't know if the smooth call by button is a sing of strength here though.

With Button Being Loose Bully Type for some reason I thought he was on a draw.He would easily call $5 PF w/ 810 suited or not

[krup24 0]

Actually I like it because we want a call from AA here right? We're going to hit our draw over 60% of the time if we see 2 cards. We may even get a K high flush draw to foldIf we flat call and hit our flush on the turn it will likely prevent us from getting AA's stack.Good push

Yes I definitely wanted a call from AA or KK here without a doubt. Flat calling just seeming like a waste here and I don't min raise or gaybet. I wanted the money right there or make em put it in as dogs (provided no set).

[Scott3705 0]

No chance BB's coming is there? Anyone have any argument for calling to keep people in the pot? Not saying I do right now. i'm just thinking about it.I think if button is coming the entire way, he's going to allow you to get almost even money on your draw the entire way. I don't like even money, I like big edges which the push gives you. Just felt like bringing it up. I like the push, but you're probably getting a call.

[NoSup4U 0]

For sure pushing there is the right play. I think thats pretty standard.Mark

[no not baxter 0]

For sure pushing there is the right play. I think thats pretty standard.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

For sure pushing there is the right play. I think thats pretty standard.

+3 except i hate when you whiff :evil:

[Pokerdad2222 0]

No chance BB's coming is there? Anyone have any argument for calling to keep people in the pot? Not saying I do right now. i'm just thinking about it.I think if button is coming the entire way, he's going to allow you to get almost even money on your draw the entire way. I don't like even money, I like big edges which the push gives you. Just felt like bringing it up. I like the push, but you're probably getting a call.

I cant really see flat calling here. Not likely but you could have a higher flush draw sitting in there that is calling for $25. That is a big reason to push I think. If a higher flush draw stays in, you are hurting here. Plus, we are ok with an over pair or AJ getting it in with us here, which may not happen if another heart falls on the turn or even a card that hits the straight draw.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

No chance BB's coming is there?  Anyone have any argument for calling to keep people in the pot?  Not saying I do right now.  i'm just thinking about it.I think if button is coming the entire way, he's going to allow you to get almost even money on your draw the entire way.  I don't like even money, I like big edges which the push gives you.  Just felt like bringing it up.  I like the push, but you're probably getting a call.

I cant really see flat calling here. Not likely but you could have a higher flush draw sitting in there that is calling for $25. That is a big reason to push I think. If a higher flush draw stays in, you are hurting here. Plus, we are ok with an over pair or AJ getting it in with us here, which may not happen if another heart falls on the turn or even a card that hits the straight draw.

If you call to keep money in the pot and miss, you are left with the decision of facing an even bigger bet with one card to come. I like the push.

[benhoug 0]

I like it. You're a favorite over most hands, and you've left them w/ a tough decision. The only hand I'm scared of here is a set - aside from that I love to be in this spot.

[Petoria 0]

I like making it 75 or 80. Not really sure, I think the situation is more complex than you're making it. There's an argument to be made for calling on the flop and raising on the turn. You could move all in as this player did, but I like 75-80 to possibly buy a free card on the turn. Or you could make a move if you miss on the turn. Making it 75 gives you some fold equity if you make a play at a missed turn. If you decide to buy a free card, and miss on the river you can get away from it leaving you with enough money to play with. Again, not sure, but that's what I'd do. Prove me wrong, I'm really interested in the discussion here.

[Scott3705 0]

If you call to keep money in the pot and miss, you are left with the decision of facing an even bigger bet with one card to come. I like the push.

If button stays and all our outs are clean, we're close to even money on the turn if the bet's in the ballpark of 75. That's probably asking a lot though.

[Scott3705 0]

I like it. You're a favorite over most hands, and you've left them w/ a tough decision. The only hand I'm scared of here is a set - aside from that I love to be in this spot.

I don't love pughing all in against AK preflop with a pair of sixes . EV+ but not a great spot. Same thing here if we expect a call no? Devil's advocate here. something about this just seems off to me and I'm trying to figure out what it is.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

I like this idea.....Im leaving work but i fully intend to discuss this when i get home. Please keep on eye out for this our keep this discussion alive.

[benhoug 0]

I don't love pughing all in against AK preflop with a pair of sixes .

I'm a sucker for straight flush draws...After looking at the hand again I'd probably raise to $100, but I think pushing is OK too. Like I said, I'm a sucker for straight flush draws.

[Pokerdad2222 0]

I like making it 75 or 80. Not really sure, I think the situation is more complex than you're making it. There's an argument to be made for calling on the flop and raising on the turn. You could move all in as this player did, but I like 75-80 to possibly buy a free card on the turn. Or you could make a move if you miss on the turn. Making it 75 gives you some fold equity if you make a play at a missed turn. If you decide to buy a free card, and miss on the river you can get away from it leaving you with enough money to play with. Again, not sure, but that's what I'd do. Prove me wrong, I'm really interested in the discussion here.

I dont mind a raise here to about 80 but I dont like a call for the reasons I listed above. I may be wrong but I dont want a higher heart draw sticking around and they will for only $25. This may even be stretching it but Aj could be the best hand right now giving us the q as an out as well. 8 10 could be involved also getting rid of our Q out here. This is streatching it but just some added possiblities from donks. Just some thoughts. This is a very interesting hand.

[Petoria 0]

Calling probably is weak, but why is a push better than a raise to 80? If you're raised you call, bc you are favored. If you miss on the turn, you have a choice, either of which is reasonable. If you hit on the turn, your draw is slightly better disguised, and may get paid off by a legitimate hand. I'm not saying pushing all in is wrong, but I just feel it would be more correct to raise to 80. I do feel that both plays can be profitable in the right situations.

[macphec 0]

Calling probably is weak, but why is a push better than a raise to 80? If you're raised you call, bc you are favored. If you miss on the turn, you have a choice, either of which is reasonable. If you hit on the turn, your draw is slightly better disguised, and may get paid off by a legitimate hand. I'm not saying pushing all in is wrong, but I just feel it would be more correct to raise to 80. I do feel that both plays can be profitable in the right situations.

i would have probably taken the raise to $80 or so line b/c I think pushing pretty much tells villians we are on a draw (I dont know if thats a bad thing or not though).The reason I hate calling is because I think there is a good chance that button is on a higher flush draw AND it gives MP a chance to get off his hand when the draw comes on the turn. I think we all pretty much agree that calling is the worst option though.With this action there's a good chance you'll get put all in even if you do raise to $80 on the flop

[kung fu 0]

i just really have the feeling MP has a 9 or 2 set that he wants to take down before the flush hits. i think a 70 raise would give us something to maneuvre from, whilst still giving us enough fold equity down the track. the push stinks of desperation, which is what it is.

[Scott3705 0]

i would have probably taken the raise to $80 or so line b/c I think pushing pretty much tells villians we are on a draw (I dont know if thats a bad thing or not though).The reason I hate calling is because I think there is a good chance that button is on a higher flush draw AND it gives MP a chance to get off his hand when the draw comes on the turn. I think we all pretty much agree that calling is the worst option though.With this action there's a good chance you'll get put all in even if you do raise to $80 on the flop

there's just as a good a chance button is on a smaller flush draw. yes, it does give MP a chance to get away if we do hit our flush or str8, but we have even money pot odds to take the turn here. And it's not guaranteed he gets away from it. Maybe the turn would get hairy if he pushes, but the button staying in keeps us even money. However, he does take away two of our outs if he's on a smaller flush.

[macphec 0]

i would have probably taken the raise to $80 or so line b/c I think pushing pretty much tells villians we are on a draw (I dont know if thats a bad thing or not though).The reason I hate calling is because I think there is a good chance that button is on a higher flush draw AND it gives MP a chance to get off his hand when the draw comes on the turn. I think we all pretty much agree that calling is the worst option though.With this action there's a good chance you'll get put all in even if you do raise to $80 on the flop

there's just as a good a chance button is on a smaller flush draw. yes, it does give MP a chance to get away if we do hit our flush or str8, but we have even money pot odds to take the turn here. And it's not guaranteed he gets away from it. Maybe the turn would get hairy if he pushes, but the button staying in keeps us even money. However, he does take away two of our outs if he's on a smaller flush.

True, button likely would have raised with the nut (or 2nd nut) flush draw

[krup24 0]

This hand sparked some interesting debateI like it

[Pokerdad2222 0]

Calling probably is weak, but why is a push better than a raise to 80?  If you're raised you call, bc you are favored.  If you miss on the turn, you have a choice, either of which is reasonable.  If you hit on the turn, your draw is slightly better disguised, and may get paid off by a legitimate hand.  I'm not saying pushing all in is wrong, but I just feel it would be more correct to raise to 80.  I do feel that both plays can be profitable in the right situations.

My question is if we miss the turn here after making it 80 to go on the flop. Lets say we make it 80 to go and get one call, making the pot just over 200 if my math serves me right leaving us with about 116. Now, a blank hits the turn. Whats our line now?? If the pot is $210 and we check and villian puts us in, we have to call right???We are getting 3-1 only needing 2-1 right?? So would a better line be to raise to 80 on the flop and then put our money in on the turn no matter what hits??? At this point I cant see the villian folding anything getting 3-1 if an ugly card hits the turn. Not saying a raise is wrong, just find this hand very interesting and want to get some opinions on this.