Jbird 0 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 SB is 16/14 reg. I have seen him do a few weird things but I've also been playing against the guy for a couple of years. Views me as very agro TAG.Opinions on a flop shove?No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG+1 ($200)MP1 ($209)MP2 ($273)MP3 ($222.15)CO ($191.35)Button ($254)SB ($215.25)Hero (BB) ($200)UTG ($276.65)Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 , 8 7 folds, SB bets $4, Hero calls $3Flop: ($10) 6 , 9 , 5 (2 players)SB bets $8, Hero raises $24.80, SB raises $64, Hero.... Link to post Share on other sites
Nashtak 0 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 3-bet preflop? Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 you have a few options here imo:3 bet precall pre with intention of peeling flops like this or bluff raising certain flops.seeing how you are IP with a decent hand, i dont mind calling here tbh. 3 bet is fine, but its meh imo. we just win the pot pre a ton. and with a decent hand it doesnt feel right to just take it down pre imo. i would prefer to 3 bet air or better value hands here. OTF, why did we raise? we have showdown value and some draw value. and against a reg who is cbetting a lot, which im assuming he would be, we gain nothing from raising. it would be better again to raise polarized here imo. pretty easy fold to the reraise. even if he has draws, a lot of his draws with diamonds have overs to your 8's. not in good shape. fold.oh and btw what is his open from the SB and fold to 3 bet % and cbet %. assuming you have preflop stats i assume you would have these too. which could influence things here. Link to post Share on other sites
Nashtak 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 He increased the pot every chances he got. Sure he raised an uncontested pot from the SB then raised again on a drawy board, but it's still really strong nonetheless. You are either far behind or slightly ahead so i would just fold. Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 This is one of those hands where I don't think you mapped out a plan for yourself. Are you raising the flop for value, or as a bluff? Why aren't you 3betting pre? If you're going to shove, I guess I'm assuming you're doing it as a semi-bluff? Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 This is one of those hands where I don't think you mapped out a plan for yourself. If you're going to shove, I guess I'm assuming you're doing it as a semi-bluff?i think you hit the nail on the head here!if he flats pre he is peeling lots of flops.if he 3 bets here, we either cbet or maybe consider a bluff raisehero kinda tried to attempt both here. it is really an ass backwards hand. bc if he is weak dont raise him. if he is strong dont bluff him. idk i dont understand the street for street thinking looking at it on the whole Link to post Share on other sites
Jbird 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 i think you hit the nail on the head here!if he flats pre he is peeling lots of flops.if he 3 bets here, we either cbet or maybe consider a bluff raisehero kinda tried to attempt both here. it is really an ass backwards hand. bc if he is weak dont raise him. if he is strong dont bluff him. idk i dont understand the street for street thinking looking at it on the wholeI believe flatting pre here is correct; unless I'm planning on getting 88 all-in pre.On the flop, my std is to just call but I wanted to see if I could intice spew. If I get reraised on that flop most times I'll be up against big hands, draws, and pure air. If I shove and get called by one of his hands I'll still decent equity against him, at the time I figured that this could work less than half the time to show a profit. Also consider that my current hand on the flop is very strong (vs his SB range) but is still in danger of being bluffed out on the turn or river. Yes it is a very backwards played hand but do you think that I will see enough b/3-b against a 77% c-b in a BvB situation that this could be profitable Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yes it is a very backwards played hand but do you think that I will see enough b/3-b against a 77% c-b in a BvB situation that this could be profitableyou've played with the guy for years...you tell me. Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I'm having a really hard time understanding your logic. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I believe flatting pre here is correct; unless I'm planning on getting 88 all-in pre.If you only 3-bet with the intention on getting it in, you are missing out on TONS of value. This should be a 3-bet pre 99% of the time. You're in position with a very strong hand for BvBIf I get reraised on that flop most times I'll be up against big hands, draws, and pure air. Good work, captain obvious. What other hands are there? Link to post Share on other sites
Jbird 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 I believe flatting pre here is correct; unless I'm planning on getting 88 all-in pre.If you only 3-bet with the intention on getting it in, you are missing out on TONS of value. This should be a 3-bet pre 99% of the time. You're in position with a very strong hand for BvBIf I get reraised on that flop most times I'll be up against big hands, draws, and pure air. Good work, captain obvious. What other hands are there?True statement if villain calls a lot of 3 bets out of position but this is 2011. Other hands= med. strength, weak w/ sd value. Should have been more clear for you Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 True statement if villain calls a lot of 3 bets out of position but this is 2011. Other hands= med. strength, weak w/ sd value. Should have been more clear for youThis is 2011? WTF? I don't care if it's 2084. There will ALWAYS be people who call a 3-bet OOP with way worse than 88. This is like not raising the river with the nuts because 'well he's not going to call anyway...'What I mean with the captain obvious statement is there is no point in 3-betting the flop with the hands you listed there. 3-betting with hands like the ones I put in bold is the same as raising with air. Ok, maybe it's like raising with a gutterball since you have very few outs. Anytime a player 3 bets you its either a draw, a monster or a bluff. There isn't anything else. Link to post Share on other sites
Jbird 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 This is 2011? WTF? I don't care if it's 2084. There will ALWAYS be people who call a 3-bet OOP with way worse than 88. This is like not raising the river with the nuts because 'well he's not going to call anyway...'What I mean with the captain obvious statement is there is no point in 3-betting the flop with the hands you listed there. 3-betting with hands like the ones I put in bold is the same as raising with air. Ok, maybe it's like raising with a gutterball since you have very few outs. Anytime a player 3 bets you its either a draw, a monster or a bluff. There isn't anything else.Right now I would guess that the avg reg is calling 3-b < 15% the rest of time he is either four betting or folding. If the villain 4 bets are you calling, folding or raising with the 88?And like I said agree I should of flatted the flop bet but given that the it is BvB and my hand has roughly 33% equity against his all-in hands; are we against enough bluffs to make a shove profitable? Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 33% equity? what range are you assigning him?Also, I think 3-bet getting it in against a 16/14 reg BvB at FR is fine imo. Link to post Share on other sites
Nashtak 0 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 3-betting preflop is good for value, but even better for the overall equity of your hand. You want to make AJ+/KQ pay while you are still ahead. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 33% equity? what range are you assigning him?Also, I think 3-bet getting it in against a 16/14 reg BvB at FR is fine imo.QFT. Equity isn't a random number you pull out of the air. Link to post Share on other sites
Shark527 0 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Isn't trying to get a 100bb's in preflop with 88 a little spewy? Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Isn't trying to get a 100bb's in preflop with 88 a little spewy?Yeah. Even BvB it would be a little spewy unless you have a specific read on Villain that he too would stack off with way less. I still think 3betting IP is the correct play. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Isn't trying to get a 100bb's in preflop with 88 a little spewy?In BvB, not particularly. I'm willing to stack off with 88 pre against most of my HU opponents.I think this would actually be a pretty decent spot for something along those lines, since we'll likely be able to put in the shove. That said, the villain's 2.5xR would make our 3-bet a bit smaller than normal and thus our 5-bet shove a bit larger. I think something along the lines of 3-betting to $17, getting 4-bet to $47, and shipping works out okay though.Jbird, I think if your plan was to put in a wonky raise on the flop to get him to spazz 3bet you, then you accomplished your goal and should stick it in. That said, flatting is going to be way better as a default. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 you've played with the guy for years...you tell me. who is it? Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 You keep talking about his "Range". What is his Range Preflop as played and then his action on the Flop. He didn't just flat our Flop Raise from OOP, he responded with a Bet. Does he do this against a presumed Agro TAG who just raised him with position? What are we representing, Flopped Set? I don't think it looks like we are Repping a Big Pocket Pair. He seems to be the one Repping that or at least a strong draw. Why don't we believe him? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now