phlegm 6 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...?urn=mlb,245292Good thing it didnt happen in New York or boston. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Ya, wow. Also, what's with perfect games now, dime a dozen huh? Seriously though, the commissioner should be like, "Hey everybody, I'm reversing that call, he was out. Perfect game bitches." This story makes me nauseous. Maybe the single worst call in baseball history? American sports history even???Going back to goddam 1880, there have been 20 perfect games. The internet claims that there have been nearly 400,000 mlb games. So a 1 in 20,000 chance. God, just oh god. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...?urn=mlb,245292Good thing it didnt happen in New York or boston.Yeah, Detroit is a safe place to screw up on this level.I feel terrible for everyone including the umpire. Instant Replay!!!~!~!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
bleacherbum3 9 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Ya, wow. Also, what's with perfect games now, dime a dozen huh?I know.Epic fail tonight, obv.But after 18 perfectos ever, this should've been the 3rd in like 2 months? Hitters don't seem to be juicing anymore. Or hitting. Link to post Share on other sites
WKTSWAY 0 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 And there was another bad call yesterday that actually caused a team to lose....http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...?urn=mlb,245360 Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Joyce is also the plate ump this afternoon. It looks rainy. Or so he hopes. But at least Porcello will have a strike zone the size of Kentucky today. Link to post Share on other sites
dEv~ 19 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Fake Quote There have been 20 perfect games in major league history. But only one worst call ever. I allowed people to see real history tonight. You're welcome.- umpire Jim Joyce Jim Joyce Ruins History Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyJoJo 18 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 It sucks and all, but in the grand scheme of things it's probably not that big of a deal. In this day and age, who isn't going to know about this? And 40 years from now when he's telling his grandkids about it, if they don't believe him he can just say, "google it." (Or whatever the equivalent to google is 40 years from now.)Also, the way both Galarrago and Joyce have handled the situation has been with total class. So they got that going for them. Which is nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 What I don't get is how you miss that call. I mean presumably he called what he saw - but he couldn't have seen something that didn't happen. So how does he make the call? And how do you NOT make it right with another on-field umpire? The home plate ump will routinely ask one of the other umps for a ruling on a checked swing because they are in position to make the ruling. Did nobody on the field see the play in real time? It is sort of like when a football ref calls something that just simply didn't happen. Call what you see or ask for help. Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyJoJo 18 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 What I don't get is how you miss that call.Because he's a human being? I mean presumably he called what he saw - but he couldn't have seen something that didn't happen.Presumably? And let's not pretend that it wasn't a close play. After a thousand replays with it being stopped at the precise moment he caught the ball, we can clearly see he was out. But it was less than half a step.So how does he make the call? And how do you NOT make it right with another on-field umpire? The home plate ump will routinely ask one of the other umps for a ruling on a checked swing because they are in position to make the ruling. Did nobody on the field see the play in real time?You think one of the other umpires was in better position to make the call? It is sort of like when a football ref calls something that just simply didn't happen. Call what you see or ask for help.He did call what he saw. He thought the runner beat the throw.Also, when you're calling plays at first base, you're taught to watch the runner's foot and listen for the ball hitting the glove. When you combine the fact that he caught it at the end of his glove and not the pocket (which would make less of a sound) and it was probably pretty loud there considering the circumstances, it's not that hard to understand how he missed it. He's a good umpire who made a mistake at the wrong time and he owned up to it. I'm not sure what else you can really ask for. Except for instant replay. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 What I don't get is how you miss that call. I mean presumably he called what he saw - but he couldn't have seen something that didn't happen. So how does he make the call? And how do you NOT make it right with another on-field umpire? The home plate ump will routinely ask one of the other umps for a ruling on a checked swing because they are in position to make the ruling. Did nobody on the field see the play in real time? It is sort of like when a football ref calls something that just simply didn't happen. Call what you see or ask for help.He was emphatic in his call and it was close enough that having a different ump step in is not realistic. This is a perfect display of why you need replay. From the coverage today and player quotes, everyone likes Jim Joyce and thinks he is as good an ump as you will find (usually). Which shows that even the best ump can blow an easy call (it was not a bang-bang play, I am sure he gets that one right 999 out of 1000). Which shows that we should use the technology we have. Give each manager one or two challenges per game. Problem solved.This sucks for Galarraga obviously but, in the end, his "perfect" game will be more memorable and he got to show that he is about as classy a guy as you will find. No one would have blamed him if he had gone all George Brett pine-tar rage mode.What they really need to do is enforce some other rules to speed up play generally so taking the time use replay once in a while is not a big deal. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 He did call what he saw.He couldn't have. The guy was out. He couldn't have SEEN him be safe because he wasn't. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 He couldn't have. The guy was out. He couldn't have SEEN him be safe because he wasn't.Anyone who has studied eye-witness accuracy knows that people mis-see things all the time. He saw it wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 This sucks for Galarraga obviously but, in the end, his "perfect" game will be more memorable and he got to show that he is about as classy a guy as you will find. No one would have blamed him if he had gone all George Brett pine-tar rage mode.Galarraga showed amazing class. And Joyce has been classy too. Fans are going to be brutal today. Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyJoJo 18 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 He couldn't have. The guy was out. He couldn't have SEEN him be safe because he wasn't.Are you for real? Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Anyone who has studied eye-witness accuracy knows that people mis-see things all the time. He saw it wrong.How many eyewitnesses are trained highly paid professional eyewitnesses with three other eyewitnesses being highly paid to watch an event they know about before hand?Not exactly the same thing.He didn't call what he saw, he called what he thought he saw. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Are you for real?I used to ref kids sports when I was a teenager. If you have not done it, maybe you dont understand how easy it is to miss a call. As far as I can tell, NFL refs mis-see pass interference 3 times a game. Humans are very imperfect beings.Also, potodds is a Detroit denizen so I am sure he is a bit biased here. Understandable.RAC, I realize he is a highly paid professional.....but all that proves is he will be better than the average citizen. Not that he will be perfect. A call like this is missed once a week. It just happened at the worst time this time. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I used to ref kids sports when I was a teenager. If you have not done it, maybe you dont understand how easy it is to miss a call. As far as I can tell, NFL refs mis-see pass interference 3 times a game. Humans are very imperfect beings.Not disputing this. Just saying that excusing it as: "He called what he saw." is false. He couldn't have "seen" the runner safe. He concluded that the runner was safe.In your eyewitness example did the eyewitness actually "see" the wrong thing, or via satisficing (look it up if you don't know the term), biases, and other human mental decision making tools come to an imperfect non-factual (or at lease non-reality based) conclusion? Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Are you for real?Come on Joey. You read the forum! Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Also, potodds is a Detroit denizen so I am sure he is a bit biased here. Understandable...I'm still trying to come to terms with the Wings losing to PGH. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Not disputing this. Just saying that excusing it as: "He called what he saw." is false. He couldn't have "seen" the runner safe. He concluded that the runner was safe.In your eyewitness example did the eyewitness actually "see" the wrong thing, or via satisficing (look it up if you don't know the term), biases, and other human mental decision making tools come to an imperfect non-factual (or at lease non-reality based) conclusion?I think they really amount to the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Tigers manager Jim Leyland said Thursday morning that he'll have Galarraga bring out the Tigers lineup to Joyce and the rest of the umpiring crew at home plate and shake hands. Leyland hopes that will diffuse any ill will from fans.Leyland said that Major League Baseball gave Joyce the option to pull out of Thursday's assignment, but he chose to work. Joyce, however, said Thursday morning he had no contact with MLB on that matter.Leyland set up the Galarraga visit in hopes that Joyce wouldn't have to relive the negative reaction that followed him immediately after the call."This is a day for Detroit to shine," Leyland said. "First of all, you are talking about one of the best umpires in the business and one of the best guys. You are talking about a guy who feels worse than anybody. It's sad. This guy is an outstanding umpire. I just really think it's a day for Tigers fans to really show what we are all about in a positive way. I really believe that, and I hope that they do. I don't know that they will, but I hope they do. I'm going to try and push for it as much as I can."The guy had every bit of integrity. He faced the music. He stood there and took it. What else can he do? I just don't believe in beating people up like that. If he would have been there and been defiant, and said 'No, I got it right,' and all this and that, and looked at it afterward and said, 'Well, yeah, I missed it,' well that's one thing. But this guy was a mess, I mean a freaking mess. I'm taking about sincere. There was nothing phony about it. This guy was a mess. My heart goes out to him."Joyce told reporters Thursday morning that his family had taken some of the negative reaction."I wish my family was out of this," Joyce said, "and I wish they would just direct it all to me. It's a big problem. My wife is a rock. My kids are very strong. But they don't deserve this. I'll take it. I'll take whatever you can give me, and I'll handle it like a man, and I'll do the best I can."Gerald Laird, who confronted Joyce in the infield immediately after the game to argue with him and had to be separated by Tigers infield coach Rafael Belliard, was to be the Tigers' starting catcher on Thursday. He was remorseful about the incident immediately after the game."We probably were a little bit out of line, I'd say," Laird said Wednesday night. "At the time, I'm sure he thought he made the right call. But when he goes back and looks at it, he's going to see. It's just more out of frustration and wanting it so bad for your teammate. That's all it is when some of us get on him."I've got all the respect in the world for Jim Joyce. He's a great umpire. He's always been. I've always had a good relationship with him. I think it's just more the heat of the moment. That's why we were getting on him. You just want it so bad, something of that caliber for your teammate."I don't do emoticons so pretend I am clapping right here. Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyJoJo 18 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I don't do emoticons so pretend I am clapping right here.That's a nice gesture. (What the Tigers are doing, not you clapping. I mean, I guess you clapping is nice too. Anyway...) Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I don't do emoticons so pretend I am clapping right here.Yeah. That's pretty classy all around. Link to post Share on other sites
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