7 replies to this topic

[CoranMoran]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, K. 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, CO calls, SB calls.Flop: (6 SB) J, 2, Q (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, SB calls.Turn: (4 BB) 9 (2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.River: (4 BB) K (2 players)SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 9 BB==============Reads: SB was very tight.CO was limping with everything.Can this raise-fold river play be made?Please advise.--CM

[kkot]

Can someone explain the raise-fold river play to me? It's something that I have never used or even considered as an option in limit.Or, if it's mentioned in a book, maybe just direct me to which one and I can read up on it myself.

[Zach6668]

Does he really call with worse hands enough?

[TJ_Eckleburg]

Quote

Can someone explain the raise-fold river play to me? It's something that I have never used or even considered as an option in limit.

There are generally two situations where you might consider a raise/fold line on the river.One is when the board is strong, 4 to a straight/flush, trips/two pair on board, that sort of thing... and you have a hand that connects in some way to beat many hands, but not the most obvious hand that the Villain is representing. In this situation, SB is representing the T for a straight. However, if he had two pair/set, or some hand that the board just shat on, he might be bet/folding into the river representing the goods. He'd want us to think he has the ten and we'd throw away our hand. So we raise to give him the opportunity to fold after he bets.If we're ahead, we're raising for value. If we're behind, we can get better non-T hands (KQ, 99, 22, etc) to fold and win the whole pot. And, if we're three-bet, we can be quite sure he had the T anyway.The other situation for a raise/fold line is more of a pure bluff, best used against aggro maniacs (which comes up a lot at short-handed). If you're a TAG or LAG/TAG playing against a psycho... when you play a pot heads up with a psycho sometimes all the betting and raising on the flop and turn is too predictable and won't give you any information. Eventually us and Villain are betting/raising on the flop and turn for no reason... almost like we're jockeying for fold equity. Then the pot's huge by the river and nobody knows where they're at.So instead of that, when we're heads up in position on a psycho... we call the flop, call the turn, and raise/fold the river when we're marginal and don't want to bloat the pot getting carried away with things along the way. Like, for example, say you have JT on an A-T-3 flop, he comes out bet/raising on the flop... No way in hell he's capable of that ace, so we'll just call down and then pop him on the river.The idea is you deliberately make 2 bet-sized mistakes in the hopes that your opponent will make a POT-sized mistake on the river.

[CoranMoran]

TJ_Eckleburg, on Thursday, May 10th, 2007, 9:33 AM, said:

There are generally two situations where you might consider a raise/fold line on the river.

But is this an acceptable time to use the play, in your opinion?--cm

[Zach6668]

CoranMoran, on Thursday, May 10th, 2007, 2:46 PM, said:

But is this an acceptable time to use the play, in your opinion?--cm

I don't think so.The raise only has value when a) better hands are folding, or B) worse hands are calling.I don't see either of those fitting here. I'm content getting to showdown for one bet.

[kkot]

What better hand folds?How many worse hands are calling?------------------------------------------------Thanks TJ, I've been meaning to ask someone that for a while now.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

I agree no worse hands call... but I contend we can make better hands fold.KQ, 99, or 22 would all consider bet/folding the river. The only problem is that it's highly unlikely villain has any of those hands based on the way he played.With that in mind, maybe flat-calling the river would have been better in this particular situation.