kq off utg

[Guest Zach6668]

What are we doing with this hand, UTG?What about a hand like 88 or 77 UTG?Thanks, Zach

[Abbaddabba 0]

This is what ive gathered from other people's advice....If it's a loose game, limp with both 7's and 8's. 9's are roughly the cutoff point where it's a raise from any position when opening. If it's a tigher game, i think 8's are a raise, and possibly not 7's.KQoff (i think) is a raise according to most.

[TheIceman05 0]

I have not been posting here for like the last few months... I posted a "UTG/UTG+1 standards" thread that got little action yesterday. I'm asking some similar questions. I play 3/6, 5/10, and in the worst 10/20 games.I've been playing for 8 years, seriously for 3 years, superseriously for about 18 months. (shrug) I dunno. I consider my strength my postflop play. I raise with it, UTG, and I occassionally raise with KJ. I hate it, but if the table plays poorly after the flop, I think we are happy to risk the chance of domination if we can get bad players to play with us for 2 bets after the flop. We're out of position, we have a decent hand, but we can get real value out of a hand or draw when we flop well.Ice

[Abbaddabba 0]

Err, ok. Im probably not qualified to give you any advice on anything.I was talking about lower, down to micro limits. I'm not sure that many would advocate raising KJoff UTG except if the table was really weak/tight. Dont know for sure though.

[Guest Zach6668]

Thanks.I'm trying to fix the many many leaks in my game. I always considered my preflop play to be good, but since I've read SSHE, I realized how much value I was missing, and that I really had no idea what I was doing.

[Guest Zach6668]

How about AJ offsuit from UTG?Thanks

[TheIceman05 0]

How about AJ offsuit from UTG?Thanks

I had a whole 10 paragraph response written out, but I'm drunk.Raise AJ utg, for sure.What limits do you play, and at what site??Ice

[Guest Zach6668]

How about AJ offsuit from UTG?Thanks

I had a whole 10 paragraph response written out, but I'm drunk.Raise AJ utg, for sure.What limits do you play, and at what site??Ice

Currently playing .5/1 on UB.

[TheIceman05 0]

Okay, here's my unadulterated advice. Consider these things:1) At these limits, there are many winning strategies. Most decisions are marginal. Raising with KQo vs. limping with KQo are BOTH winning plays. Consider that. 2) That being said, I think raising is better. Mediocre hands will have to pay to play, and if you play well after the flop, you can hammer good hands and draws, and muck when you're spanked.3) People play bad hands. KQ is a decent-good hand. It wins more than it loses if you play well. If you remain aware, this will stay true. 4) When your opponents play poorly, no decision you make before the flop is ever that bad. You can play any REASONABLE hand and have a positive expectation. So don't worry too much. I pop it, because I like playing big pots against a small field of bad, easily readable players. But if you'd rather limp and save money, and play a smaller pot (shrug), you're probably losing some money. I say pop it, and be careful.Remember, I'm nearly blackout drunkIce

[Guest Zach6668]

Yeah, that makes sense IceMan, thanks for the replies.On a sidenote, I can't believe your typing and spelling etc, if you really are that drunk....lol

[Wingmaster05 0]

If the table is more aggressive then usual, i dump KQ and maybe AJ (i hate AJ btw) UTG.

[navybuttons 15]

you should be raising here probably. but i think there's a little misguided advice about why. raising a pot is probably keeping the pot a little smaller. think (your limits) 3 preflop $1 callers vs. 6 $.5 callers. most likely there's going to be more money in the pot with the latter by the hands end.but why you want to raise is pretty obvious: you want to knock out all the inferior hands that your hand is not a huge favorite over i.e. 7-8 suited or even knock out A-3 or A5. if K8s is going to call here, sometimes he'll catch two pair but more often than not you are going to slaughter him when a K hits and he calls down your hand.

[Garn 0]

especially if this is a short handed table. Either way though i like rasing with all pocket pairs because you get more information and if u hit a nice flop the pot is already juicy.

[navybuttons 15]

especially if this is a short handed table. Either way though i like rasing with all pocket pairs because you get more information and if u hit a nice flop the pot is already juicy.

hmmm... if we have pocket threes and get called, if the flop doesn't have a three in it and were bet to what can we do? at least with 77 you may have top or second pair.i'm not saying this is the wrong play but it is probably wrong to say that in all shorthanded pots i'm going to raise with all pocket pairs.

[Wingmaster05 0]

yeah i dump 33 and 22 everywhere unless it's a limpfest, or im in the blinds. 44 is totally on if i feel like pounding or not. 55 UTG...ehh.

[Monster_Josh 0]

I think AJ is the hardest hand to play.

[ICrushHomeGames 0]

UTG:KQ: raise at a tight table, fold everywhere else77: limp, call 1-bet raise. trying to see a cheap flop

[Abbaddabba 0]

You arent actually advocating a raise/fold, are you?

[AlanBostick 0]

Lee Jones says you should limp in UTG with KQo.Sklansky and Malmuth don't consider it to be playable in that position.My feeling about it is limp in with it and call one more bet. If the action comes around to me with two or more bets for me to call, this piece of cheese is going into the muck faster than you can say "kicker no good".KQ, suited or not, is a recipe for hitting top-pair-second-best-kicker, and if you do your outs can be tainted because of the possibility of running into a straight or a better two pair.Unlike TheIceman05, I don't like the idea of raising with KQo in a game full of weakies, because I really don't want to be reraised. I'd be delighted to risk playing KQs in a multiway capped pot in a game of no-fold'em hold'em. I would hate to play KQo in the same game for the same price.In a tight game, and especially in a tight-aggressive game, I'm mucking KQo in early position. Unless it's short-handed, and UTG is equivalent ot MP2 or CO, and then I'm raising.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Of course you would hate to be 3bet.The point is that in a weak/tight game, it's unlikely that it will happen.And when it does happen, you have a whole lot of information about the opponents hand, so you're not going to lose nearly as much value as you should/normally would.

[Sushiman 0]

I raise KQ from pretty much all positions if no one has opened before me. It is a hand I vastly prefer over ones like AJ and A10. Raising KQ in a weak tight game is the BEST option because not only are you getting hands like A7 and low-mid pairs to fold, it is easy to ditch if a reraise comes your way and the flop is bad. You don't feel commited against an aggressor because K high has no showdown value heads up. Btw AlanBostick, Malmuth and Sklansky advise playing KQ in EP and raising it from everywhere else in a tight game. They also advice RAISING KQ from EP in a loose game. This is straight out of SSHE and unless they did a 180 in another book, I'm not sure what you are referring to.

[TheIceman05 0]

Unlike TheIceman05, I don't like the idea of raising with KQo in a game full of weakies, because I really don't want to be reraised.  I'd be delighted to risk playing KQs in a multiway capped pot in a game of no-fold'em hold'em.  I would hate to play KQo in the same game for the same price.

I'm not really talking about the kind of 3/6-5/10-10/20 games you see at most casinos, where you're expecting 5-8 way action. In those situations ("no-fold'em-hold'em" in the parlance of our times), I fold if the game is even reasonably aggressive, and limp otherwise. But in these games, I limp almost everything I'm playing, save for very few hands.I'm talking about your typical 1/2---->2/4 donkfest at party poker, where you'll have some idea where you're at after the flop, and your raise will at least create an illusion of pressure. I just looked up how I do with KQo UTG and UTG+1 in full ring 3/6 and 5/10 games. I found that I raise with it most of the time, about 80% of the time, limp with it 5% of the time, and muck it the other 15%. I've shown a profit with it, though a very marginal one, at about .15BB/hand. This could be a little misleading. After looking through some of the specific instances, I found that I absolutely fucking bluffed my goddamned ass off in a few key pots. Without those, I'd probably be almost exactly even.I play alright after the flop, so I can barely play the hand for a raise profitably. This isn't to say that I'm making MORE playing for a raise than limping, but I have nothing to compare it to. My final word: Safe/logical route- fold in the first 2 positions, unless the table is overly passive, in which case limping is fine.If the game you're playing is weak/tight (I play in a lot of these, I think, and can usually recognize them pretty quick), then a raise first in is probably best. But you still have to keep yo' ass out tha fire.CheersIce

[nachunja 0]

totally different topic but what about QJo UTG, EPno brainer fold?QJs UTG, EP no brainer limp?

[TheIceman05 0]

totally different topic but what about QJo UTG, EPno brainer fold?QJs UTG, EP no brainer limp?

Holy crap, yes. Unplayable.QJs is one of the few hands I limp UTG all the timeIce

[Actuary 3]

totally different topic but  what about QJo UTG, EPno brainer fold?QJs UTG, EP  no brainer limp?

Holy crap, yes. Unplayable.QJs is one of the few hands I limp UTG all the timeIce

QJs I limp UTG.Then I get wood as 5 others come along.Go ahead and raise, Mr. Button,...I like it multiway in a raised pot even more!