17 replies to this topic

[mrpossum]

PokerStars Game #21973931564: Tournament #119387045, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2008/11/12 10:08:18 ETTable '119387045 72' 9-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: djerome91 (4050 in chips) Seat 2: taugonut (4200 in chips) Seat 3: lbernd (8530 in chips) Seat 4: Soulmann187 (1455 in chips) Seat 5: Battie123 (4295 in chips) Seat 6: angkiki (4645 in chips) Seat 7: TiguiVw (7230 in chips) Seat 8: 19pete83 (5560 in chips) Seat 9: larry-pkher (3785 in chips) angkiki: posts small blind 75TiguiVw: posts big blind 150*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to angkiki [Qc Qh]19pete83: folds larry-pkher: folds djerome91: folds taugonut: raises 300 to 450lbernd: folds Soulmann187: folds Battie123: folds angkiki: raises 450 to 900TiguiVw: calls 750taugonut: calls 450*** FLOP *** [9c 9s As]angkiki: checks TiguiVw: bets 1050taugonut: folds angkiki: folds Uncalled bet (1050) returned to TiguiVwTiguiVw collected 2700 from potTiguiVw: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot 2700 | Rake 0 Board [9c 9s As]Seat 1: djerome91 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: taugonut folded on the FlopSeat 3: lbernd folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Soulmann187 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Battie123 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: angkiki (small blind) folded on the FlopSeat 7: TiguiVw (big blind) collected (2700)Seat 8: 19pete83 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: larry-pkher folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[HighwayStar]

Reraise more preflop (I'd make up for being out of position by making it about 1600) and bet the flop. It's not pretty so I don't hate check folding but I think bet/folding is probably optimal. If you made the pot big enough pf - shoving probably is fairly decent too - depends on the villain though.

[HollywoodAFD]

You lost when you checked after the flop.After his bet...you had to lay down... not worth risking 25% of your stack with that on the board. He either outplayed you or had you beat.Good lay down

[mrpossum]

HighwayStar, on Wednesday, November 12th, 2008, 11:22 PM, said:

Reraise more preflop (I'd make up for being out of position by making it about 1600) and bet the flop. It's not pretty so I don't hate check folding but I think bet/folding is probably optimal. If you made the pot big enough pf - shoving probably is fairly decent too - depends on the villain though.

I didn't make the re-raise to big was because i didn't want to put myself in a position where i get min-re-raised and was practically forced to call before throwing my hand away on the river. Not sure if this makes sense though. Basically i check-folded was because with a 3bet prf with 3 in a hand i was dead certain 1 of the villians had to have at least AA/KK/AK/AQ and maybe AJ which was what the guy claim to have after that.

[mrpossum]

HollywoodAFD, on Wednesday, November 12th, 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

You lost when you checked after the flop.After his bet...you had to lay down... not worth risking 25% of your stack with that on the board. He either outplayed you or had you beat.Good lay down

I figured i was certainly beat with 3bet prf and 2 callers. No way i was leading with that A on the board. So i figured no point bet/folding ...

[outsider13]

mrpossum, on Wednesday, November 12th, 2008, 9:56 AM, said:

I didn't make the re-raise to big was because i didn't want to put myself in a position where i get min-re-raised and was practically forced to call before throwing my hand away on the river. Not sure if this makes sense though. Basically i check-folded was because with a 3bet prf with 3 in a hand i was dead certain 1 of the villians had to have at least AA/KK/AK/AQ and maybe AJ which was what the guy claim to have after that.

I wouldn't worry about getting re-raised after your 3 bet. I'd be completely willing to get it all in here and you also want to better define your hand. If he is raising you with 77 here, he has to call your minraise.I'd 3/bet pf to 1400ish. If he comes along, well then it becomes tricky because you really don't have enough to cbet. It would be shove or fold.

mrpossum, on Wednesday, November 12th, 2008, 9:59 AM, said:

I figured i was certainly beat with 3bet prf and 2 callers. No way i was leading with that A on the board. So i figured no point bet/folding ...

Not necessarily true. Again, because you min 3bet, they really had to call considering the odds you gave them to call. I'd guess that you are beat though too, so as played, I'd probably c/f.

[Gallo]

mrpossum, on Wednesday, November 12th, 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

I didn't make the re-raise to big was because i didn't want to put myself in a position where i get min-re-raised and was practically forced to call before throwing my hand away on the river. Not sure if this makes sense though. Basically i check-folded was because with a 3bet prf with 3 in a hand i was dead certain 1 of the villians had to have at least AA/KK/AK/AQ and maybe AJ which was what the guy claim to have after that.

Problem here is that you got yourself into this sticky situation by not raising more PF, then you gave up on flop. If you raise more PF you might take down the pot right there and if villain shoves I probably get it in there.

[Mercury69]

RR pf to 1300ish. As played, fold and live.

[SlackerInc]

mrpossum, on Wednesday, November 12th, 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

I figured i was certainly beat with 3bet prf and 2 callers. No way i was leading with that A on the board. So i figured no point bet/folding ...

I agree with you there. If the overcard is a K, that's a different story; but with two callers one of them's very likely to have the ace. I do still think you should have reraised to about 1400 preflop though.

[SGFULTON83]

Raise more pre-flop and be willing to get it all-in with Queens. Bet/fold this flop would be a good play, as checking basically gave villian the hand.

[chrispycream]

The guy who bet is the only guy I'd be willing to play a pot with after the flop....Does anybody else think this? What hands flat call like this in a $5 tourney? I think TiguwiVW could possibly have just a mid pocket pair. As played, I would definitely fold though. No reason to compound your preflop raise mistake.

[MovingIn]

The 3bet needs to be bigger, as the minraise as played is an easier call than you think for either blind, since the open raiser is assured of calling the extra 450. The odds are there for a lighter call from the blinds if you only make it 900, and the stacks are deep enough that 900 won't commit anyone involved: they can get away if the flop misses.Preflop is probably a commit or fold situation with QQ. As Slack said, I'd make it about 1400, though I'd shove the rest the very next chance you get if called or 4bet. You either want to get it all in, or if you don't want to stack off with QQ here, you want to see as cheap a flop as possible with a fit or fold mindset. If you run into a cooler, tough beat.

[mrpossum]

If we made it 1400ish pf and it comes a flop like this how do we proceed ?

[outsider13]

mrpossum, on Wednesday, November 12th, 2008, 11:13 PM, said:

If we made it 1400ish pf and it comes a flop like this how do we proceed ?

I'd be okay with check/fold here. You either shove or fold, whether or not you feel lucky because you don't have the stack to bet/fold.

[mrpossum]

I figured bet/folding would be a waste of chips.Is it wrong to think this way ?

[Pig P0ker]

mrpossum, on Thursday, November 13th, 2008, 3:15 AM, said:

I figured bet/folding would be a waste of chips.Is it wrong to think this way ?

I think check/folding this flop is fine... Like everyone said, raise more preflop. but in this 5$ game any ace is going to call practically any bet you make.. so save your chips and find a better spot. Although bet/fold is an acceptable play, you have to assume at least one of them has an ace, and they will probably play their stack with this ace.

[SlackerInc]

Pig P0ker, on Thursday, November 13th, 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

I think check/folding this flop is fine... Like everyone said, raise more preflop. but in this 5$ game any ace is going to call practically any bet you make.. so save your chips and find a better spot. Although bet/fold is an acceptable play, you have to assume at least one of them has an ace, and they will probably play their stack with this ace.

QFT. Against one villain it could be different; but in a low buyin game where people play Ax like it's the nuts, even premium pairs (other than AA obv.) lose a lot of value when an A flops, as it often does. Kind of annoying, but this shows a big reason to raise more preflop--not to get rid of the Ax players necessarily (you might not be able to), but to make it more expensive for them to find out if they flop their A. Then if they don't, you get more chips out of them before they realise they're beat. After all, there are different levels of donkitude. Some players are such idiot calling stations they might still keep calling off their stack hoping the turn or the river will pair their ace; but others will put on the brakes if they whiff the flop. And that latter group, you want to make pay dearly to see the flop.

[sennin]

mrpossum, on Wednesday, November 12th, 2008, 11:13 PM, said:

If we made it 1400ish pf and it comes a flop like this how do we proceed ?

if its HU id bet the flop, if its multiway I probably checkfoldbut ya, make it like 1400-1500 pf