$70 pot in .25/.50 NL home game

[t-bone 0]

My friends and I play a $0.25/$0.50 NL home game every couple of weeks and the play has actually gotten quite good over the last few months. This hand came up last night and I though it was very interesting. There were 5 people at the table, each with about $30 stacks. The People:1. My little brother: He's VERY aggressive and can read people like nobody's business. He'll raise with any 2 cards, and can play the flop better than anyone I know.2. Barry: Plays pretty straight forward, I guess you could call him "weak-tight," sometimes he shows a little aggression. Doesn't play his position very well.3. Ken: Very strong begginning player. He is a very tight, aggressive player.4. Allan: Last night was his 4th time playing. He's still learning the basics and is a calling station. He called my pot-sized bets down to the river when I had top 2 pair and he hit a runner-runner straight. He said "well, I had J6, and it was SUITED, so I had to call your $5 bet on the flop."5. Me: I've been playing very aggressive lately. I'll come in for a riase with almost anything from LP, sometimes from EP to mix it up, and I've really improved my flop play recently. I've been playing very well live.The Hand:My bro is dealing, Ken raises to $2 UTG, Allan calls, my bro calls, I look down at 6c8d in the SB and I know Barry is going to call so I do as well, and obviously Barry calls. It's very uncommon for the 5 of us to be in for 4xBB.Flop comes Kd7d9d. I fire out $4 to see where I'm at, Barry calls, Ken thinks for a while, then calls, Allan folds, my bro raises to $10. There is lots in the pot, and I have a good drawing hand, but I have to believe I'm behind here. Surely someone has a higher diamond, and at least a pair. I put Ken on AK or AQ, so he could have a diamond and top pair. I fold. Barry and Ken, to my surprise, both call. Shoot! I should have called for $6 more!!! Turn comes Jc. Barry bets $5 into the $50 pot (??????), again Ken calls, Taylor (my bro) pushes allin for his remaining $10 or so, Ken and Barry BOTH call. Taylor says "S**T!! I have NOTHING!!!" He flips over KQ, no diamond. Barry has Jd9c for 2 pair and the J high flush draw, Ken flips over AdKc for top/pair with the A high flush draw.River comes a dud and Barry takes the biggest pot ever at my house with a crappy 2 pair. I think I'm happy with my fold, obviously I was very far behind, what do you think? I was correct in my read on Ken, but i had no idea what Taylor and Bary had. Barry knows enough to call with any 2 from the BB when there's already $10 in the pot, so he could have had anything. I wanted to just push allin on the flop sooooooooooo bad. If Ken wasn't in the hand I would have, but I knew he had a monster, and that I was probably only drawing to my straight. What would you have done? Hahaha I guess the correct answer would be fold 68o from the sb, but i didn't.I talked with ken after the game about the hand and he told me he also wanted to push on the flop. He said he didn't know what Barry had though, he put Barry on 2 diamonds.

[SexyStudThang 0]

This hand is a very easy lay down for you to make, and the laydown is the correct play. That's plain and simple, any time you have a straight draw at a threeflush board it needs to go. In this case you only lose one out, but any diamond falling and your hand is dead. Your 8 high flush is not holding up in a 5 way pot. In fact I dont even like the bet on the flop here. In a game with aggressive players and strong players, as well as a calling station in the backfield the play is to check here. You're still going to know where you're at, with 4 players still left to act you're going to be able to determine which of them are protecting a pair or better holding, and which are betting their draws etc. THe only chance you have of winning a 5 way pot here is to check, and call a player that you are sure is betting his pair holding and ONLY this player is in the hand, then you can check raise him all in on the turn and you have a lot of outs if he calls, but even this play is probably too dangerous. I'd be a much bigger fan of check and fold in most situations here. Although the other players in the hand played really weird too, calling with bad draws with 1 card to come and such. My thoughts anyway.-Brent

[t-bone 0]

Looking back I realize you are absolutely right Brent. I should have checked the flop then folded. I guess I got a little blinded by the big pot 8) After the fact, knowing what the other players had, I know I could have folded my brother and Barry on the flop. Ken could have also (he had AdKc). The way the hand *should* have gone was: I check, Barry checks, Ken bets pot, Taylor folds, I fold, Barry folds, Ken takes a medium pot down on the flop with TPTK and 4 to the nut flush. I beleve the only reason this hand got out of hand (no pun intended), was because of my brother's raise to $10 on the flop, after I placed that stupid $4 bet and Ken and Barry called. Nobody believed him (he had shown down some bad bluffs that night) and they were willing to call him with weaker holdings. After that it just gets out of control.I'm kicking myself now for that stupid $4 bet on the flop :? I should have ckeck-folded.

[jayistheman 0]

whenever there are 2 of a suit on the board, an outside straight draw is only 6 outs... cuz 2 of them make the flush... i dont ever draw to that one. when the flop is suited, well... then you're drawing dead more often than not.... when the flop is suited, the only thing i will play is a straight flush draw, the nut card... (A usually), or a set (10 outs to boat). i like to make it a habit of not drawing to anything that i cant double up with.... if u hit your straight and u got pushed all in.. then what? this stuff usually applies in a skilled game.. .but when there are loose agressive weak players everywhere things can get odd.another thing to watch.... be careful with the "feeler" bets... they often smell very weak, and players will come over the top of them with nothing... in early position, a check is cheaper, safer, and more productive.good luck man.... hope this helps.

[MarkZ 0]

Absolute check and fold. One point that hasn't been mentioned, is that even if you hit your straight with the T, you might be up against QJ. This is rare, but it happens. You really only had 3 "good" outs here.