Religion Debate At The Poker Table

[jjburdick 0]

So, I just got home from the Village Club in Chula Vista, California and had an extremely interesting debate going on between the people seated right next to me. Actually, it got really annoying and started to slow the game down and therefore I left but either way I thought that I would ask some people on here what they think. First, I will tell you what they were arguing about. One person thought that playing poker was a sin and that Christians that play poker are hypocrites. He started to get annoying and pulled out his blackberry and searched for bible quotes and what not and when ever he found one he made it a big deal and started chanting the phrases to everyone at the table. The other player just fueled the fire by saying that he had a masters degree (I don't doubt he did but he never mentioned what it was for) and that he was a bible expert and it never condemns gambling. I will have to admit that the only religion education that I have received came from my Catholic high school and grade school and most of it I shrugged off because I never got taught the same thing from any religion teacher and that made me lose interest in the whole subject. Also, in school, at least this is my view, they skew the teachings to stop kids from doing things because they think its wrong and not because it is condemned. So, on that note I was told that gambling is a sin. I have never bothered to look it up because I am not very religious and I can not see how gambling in moderation will send me to hell. Obviously "moderation" is the key word there. Also, I believe if you looked hard enough you can find any passage in the bible that either condemns or supports any of your views, it is all just how you spin it in your way like any good debate tactic.So, back on point... My main question for discussion is do many of you believe that gambling is a sin? The one main quote that the guy kept saying was something along the lines of, "If you make money off of peoples inexperience or take advantage of someone to make gains, then that is a sin." Well, on that note, poker fits the bill 100%. If it wasn't for the inexperienced players there would be no poker scene to speak of. The goal in poker is to take advantage of your opponents weaknesses and profit from them. Well, i think that that is enough background to let people get started.One final note that I found funny was that this guy saying that poker is a sin seemed very knowledgeable on the bible making me assume that he was a Christian and therefore was making fun of himself.... I didn't want to say anything because I really wished they would shut up and play cards like they were before their attention was pulled away from throwing their chips away.

[BWToth 0]

From a view outside of Christianity gambling in and of itself has a very great potential to lead to irresponsible behavoir that can lead to significant detremental effects on people's lives, regardles of whether or not it is morally right/wrong.

[jmkiser 0]

From a view outside of Christianity gambling in and of itself has a very great potential to lead to irresponsible behavoir that can lead to significant detremental effects on people's lives, regardles of whether or not it is morally right/wrong.

Would it be relevant to add the discussions of "excess" to your statement? As in saying, anything can lead to irresponsible behavior that can lead to significant detrimental effects on people's lives if done in excess. Compare gambling to ... comfort eating or... a low self-confidence (leads to irresponsible behaviors like eating disorders). Most of the time, I'm of the belief that anything and everything is ok if done in moderation... sex, gambling, drinking, etc. and reading your statement made me think of that... of course, the next thought was that the "excess statement" might not even be relative to what you're speaking of...

[DonkSlayer 1]

From a view outside of Christianity gambling in and of itself has a very great potential to lead to irresponsible behavoir that can lead to significant detremental effects on people's lives, regardles of whether or not it is morally right/wrong.

Which I think is the view that most Christians hold on gambling....save the louder bangers of the more evangelical faiths.

[semaj550 0]

Which I think is the view that most Christians hold on gambling....save the louder bangers of the more evangelical faiths.

I don't see anything in Christianity that would make gambling in and of itself immoral. There are other behaviours that commonly accompany gambling which would be, however.

[jmkiser 0]

I don't see anything in Christianity that would make gambling in and of itself immoral. There are other behaviours that commonly accompany gambling which would be, however.

Which that is the point I believe Toth was getting at that Donk was agreeing with.

[semaj550 0]

Which that is the point I believe Toth was getting at that Donk was agreeing with.

I concur, I was just offering a Christian perspective.

[BWToth 0]

Yes, and Yes, as for the excess of anything leading to problems, of course, but with gambling there are things that about it and that go along with it that make it easier to go off the deep end so the 'moderation' of this activity should be more closely monitored.Essentially the avg person runs a higher risk of getting into problems from gambling if they aren't careful than becoming an obsessive eater. Hence it could have a 'darker' image

[11 to 1 0]

"If you make money off of peoples inexperience or take advantage of someone to make gains, then that is a sin."

I bet he didn't offer a citation. See, Bible quotes out of context don't offer much insight into anything at all. Who was talking to whom, what was the context? Let's say I want to be a tennis pro. I start entering tournaments. I'm not going to be as experienced as the other players, they are going to beat me and get the money. Is is a sin? People play poker for fun, you know. It's how pros make a living. Some people toss moeny away on slot macines, others on lottery tickets and some like playing poker. They don't expect to sin, they expect to have fun. Some players want to get better and play at higher stakes in more experienced company and the lost money is like paying tuition. Sin just means to be on a path away from Grace. How does playing poker affect you? Do you get some sick pleasure from CRUSHING your opponent? Or do just like playing and winning is the way you measure your ability? The first would reflect being on a path away from God, not because of the activity, but because of why you do it. The second is pretty much neutral, it might even be a path God leads you to, to make a living, face some weaknesses in yourself you need to master, develop self-discipline.Very few human actions are sinful in themselves. Jesus only gave us one real commandment: Love One Another. Do the best you can at everything you do (including poker) and treat your brothers and sisters well. Drive defensively. Tip the waitress. Listen to a joke you've heard a million times and laugh anyway, it'll make the teller feel good. Adopt a shelter animal and treat it well.Quit worrying. God loves you, that's the real point. Besides, if the guy believed what he said, he'd have gotten up from the table before you did.

[jmkiser 0]

Let's say I want to be a tennis pro. I start entering tournaments. I'm not going to be as experienced as the other players, they are going to beat me and get the money. Is is a sin? People play poker for fun, you know. It's how pros make a living. Some people toss moeny away on slot macines, others on lottery tickets and some like playing poker. They don't expect to sin, they expect to have fun. Some players want to get better and play at higher stakes in more experienced company and the lost money is like paying tuition.

Christian moral relativity is amusing. It's never the same from one Christian to the next. So let me check on the reasoning of this arguement.A. Tournament poker player is similar to tournament tennis playerB. Tournament tennis couldn't possibly be a sinC. Tournament poker player, therefore, can't be considered sinIs there a Christian that feels differently? Is there a Christian that will make the arguement that both tournament tennis and tournament poker is a sin? Where are the strict ones when you want some fun?In all reality, though, the difference between tournament tennis and tournament poker is the actual game that the tournament is based on. Poker is based off gambling and tennis is based off of... well... tennis. Not that you couldn't be terrible, not realize you were terrible, and gamble your life savings away on tournament tennis tournaments. That is much less likely to even be close to true, though. In poker, Chris Moneymake can win the World Series Main Event. In tennis, no one could get a set on Roger Federer. Get it?

[11 to 1 0]

Poker is based off gambling and tennis is based off of... well... tennis. Not that you couldn't be terrible, not realize you were terrible, and gamble your life savings away on tournament tennis tournaments. That is much less likely to even be close to true, though. In poker, Chris Moneymake can win the World Series Main Event. In tennis, no one could get a set on Roger Federer. Get it?

I get that you didn't understand the point of the post. Too busy thinking of smug replies to the ignerint xtians to read for comprehension, I guess.

[jmkiser 0]

(sw) :: wags fingers :: it does no goood to be fullll of hate!:-P Actually, I am very good natured today. I was not making smug responses to Christians... just making a point. With Christianity, morals are not defined... nor are ethics. Debates about what is a sin is futile. Many sects already come with set views and beliefs so discussions just end up being big sessions of people beating their heads into brick walls.My little paragraph on the whole tennis thing was pretty much just explaining on why you can't relate the two. On the discussion of sin, I don't believe in sin...

[11 to 1 0]

(sw) :: wags fingers :: it does no goood to be fullll of hate!:-P

Seriously, I wish you guys would get a new shtick - the whole deal of goading a Christian until they make some negative response (or what you perceive as that) and then crowing triumphantly about how they aren't very good Christians because they aren't all lovey-dovey with yourself is SO 1982 message board. I don't hate you, I just.....already met you a few hundred times.

[jmkiser 0]

Seriously, I wish you guys would get a new shtick - the whole deal of goading a Christian until they make some negative response (or what you perceive as that) and then crowing triumphantly about how they aren't very good Christians because they aren't all lovey-dovey with yourself is SO 1982 message board. I don't hate you, I just.....already met you a few hundred times.

In every response you have made about me, your assumptions have been more then 100% wrong.Is there anyone who regularly posts here that even thinks for a second that I am goading him into being a bad Christian so I can shove it in his face?11 to 1, wake up, buddy. I goad you because you are a Christian... not because you're a bad one You haven't met me a few hundred times because you continuously prove that you have no idea who (or what... as it seems you're trying to get at) I am.The comment that you quoted was good natured teasing... seriously... think you can handle it? And are you done creating labels

[11 to 1 0]

The comment that you quoted was good natured teasing... seriously... think you can handle it? And are you done creating labels

labels. No one can have any opinions about you based on anything but your behavior. You have acted just as I said in every thread I have encountered you in. You refuse to define your terms, you refuse to engage in dialogue, you refuse to understand that there is a larger world and view but you continually post in a way designed to simply piss off a Christian. YOU started the labelling long before I did, son, and continue to do so every time you say "the God you made up." As you haven't a shred of evidence that this is true, I'd say you are a TROLL. You bring nothing of substance to any conversation about these topics but only disrupt any conversation others are trying to have. You have no room for any ideas but your own. So - now we're done.

[jmkiser 0]

11 to 1, we were done ages ago. People have been denouncing your credibility for quite awhile now ;)I'm always up for debate and discussion, but you haven't provided anything to discuss. Your terms start on the fact that God actually exists and I can't discuss on that basis because I don't believe in the likelihood of a God. To me, God is not the next logical step for the facts we have yet to explain.