10 replies to this topic

[ICrushHomeGames]

50NL HE, 10-handedHero ($75.70)Villain ($92.08)MP1 is fairly loose and has shown willingness to draw.Pre-flop: Hero is in BB ($0.50) with K :icon_suit_heart: K :icon_suit_spade: . Fold, fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, hero raises to $3, MP1 calls, table folds.Flop ($7.50): J :icon_suit_heart: A :icon_suit_spade: A :icon_suit_heart: Hero bets $4, villain calls.Turn ($15.50): K :icon_suit_club: Hero checks, villain bets $7, hero raises to $20, villain calls.River ($55.50): J :icon_suit_club: Hero??Should I lead here (and for how much, I have about $50 left), c/c, c/f?

[The Bwaves]

ICrushHomeGames, on Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 3:52 PM, said:

50NL HE, 10-handedHero ($75.70)Villain ($92.08)MP1 is fairly loose and has shown willingness to draw.Pre-flop: Hero is in BB ($0.50) with K :icon_suit_heart: K :icon_suit_spade: . Fold, fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, hero raises to $3, MP1 calls, table folds.Flop ($7.50): J :icon_suit_heart: A :icon_suit_spade: A :icon_suit_heart: Hero bets $4, villain calls.Turn ($15.50): K :icon_suit_club: Hero checks, villain bets $7, hero raises to $20, villain calls.River ($55.50): J :icon_suit_club: Hero??Should I lead here (and for how much, I have about $50 left), c/c, c/f?

A rollercoaster indeed! It's a tough laydown but you have to make it. From the way the villian played it sounds like a weak ace. Lets try and break it down a little bit.J A A flop, you lead and he calls. Now it almost feels like a jack at this point because trip aces will usually raise here but he could be slow playing that weak ace.J A A K turn, GIN! You hit your baby! You check with intentions of check raising, bam worked perfectly! He calls, even better.J A A K J river, ****! That killed it. Your only hope would be a jack but this isn't really played like he has a jack by the check/call on the turn. I'm pretty stubborn about these hands and would most likely take the check/call on the river hoping he's over calling with his jack.If you can say with confidence he would play a weak ace the same way then I would have to throw kings full away knowing that my opponent re-sucked me out on the river.Tough call, I C/C, and pray.

[srblan]

I put him on either a flopped ace or a flush draw (yes, some players are actually that bad). I don't think that a lead will work on the river, since if you get raised, you will probably have to call anyway.I honestly think I'd have bet more on the turn (maybe all of it, depending on your opponent's ability to make a laydown), knowing that I'd get called by an ace and I wouldn't have to make a tough decision if something ugly happened. Maybe that's too conservative, but since you are out of position, you don't really want to take the chance that your opponent hits his kicker.

[insano]

Probobly C/C as stated above. This is a perfect example of a situation where you would proboby get a value bet out of him if you do check.Based on his play I'd say KJ is a strong possibility here... So It's worth the C/C.

[The Bwaves]

insano, on Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 6:08 PM, said:

Probobly C/C as stated above. This is a perfect example of a situation where you would proboby get a value bet out of him if you do check.Based on his play I'd say KJ is a strong possibility here... So It's worth the C/C.

Can you ellaborate on your thoughts of him having KJ? I think the raise on the turn pretty much isolates him to an ace. A raise to $20 and a smooth call kind of makes me think he's slow playing a set.Most players see a check/raise as a very strong move. Almost giving your hand away. I'm pretty sure the villain has a strong hand just based on his calling the check raise on the turn.Any thoughts?

[insano]

The Bwaves, on Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 3:16 PM, said:

Can you ellaborate on your thoughts of him having KJ? I think the raise on the turn pretty much isolates him to an ace. A raise to $20 and a smooth call kind of makes me think he's slow playing a set.Most players see a check/raise as a very strong move. Almost giving your hand away. I'm pretty sure the villain has a strong hand just based on his calling the check raise on the turn.Any thoughts?

The villian called the $4 bet on the flop, if I have an ace there, I'm raising.Once our hero checked the turn, the villian probobly thinks he can take the pot down right there, as his J is probobly ahead. The only way I see the villian calling the $20 raise on the turn is with KJ. If he had an ace he would probobly raise. It's too dangerous to call here with the ace. If he just has a K he might call, but without the J he never would have called the bet on the flop.That's just my .02. He could be slowplaying a monster here, but I just don't see it.

[The Bwaves]

insano, on Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 6:33 PM, said:

The villian called the $4 bet on the flop, if I have an ace there, I'm raising.Once our hero checked the turn, the villian probobly thinks he can take the pot down right there, as his J is probobly ahead. The only way I see the villian calling the $20 raise on the turn is with KJ. If he had an ace he would probobly raise. It's too dangerous to call here with the ace. If he just has a K he might call, but without the J he never would have called the bet on the flop.That's just my .02. He could be slowplaying a monster here, but I just don't see it.

Would you really raise the flop and scare away pocket kings if you had trip aces or would you call and hope he leads on the turn so you raise?I'm just trying to anylize, not criticizing at all.I could see the villain putting the hero on KJ with a weak ace and is trying to milk him.

[insano]

The Bwaves, on Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 3:38 PM, said:

Would you really raise the flop and scare away pocket kings if you had trip aces or would you call and hope he leads on the turn so you raise?I'm just trying to anylize, not criticizing at all.I could see the villain putting the hero on KJ with a weak ace and is trying to milk him.

I would raise the flop if I had trips aces. If I had AJ? Probobly not. But If I had AJ I would have raised the C/R on the turn.Sometimes I tend to be a little overagressive, and it shows in my opinions about certain hands Low limit poker is full of calling stations, so I like to raise hands like this.

[The Bwaves]

insano, on Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 6:44 PM, said:

I would raise the flop if I had trips aces. If I had AJ? Probobly not. But If I had AJ I would have raised the C/R on the turn.Sometimes I tend to be a little overagressive, and it shows in my opinions about certain hands Low limit poker is full of calling stations, so I like to raise hands like this.

You are also a much better player than the average low limit player, that's why this gets confusing. He could just be like, "crap I have three aces and i dont want him to fold!" I know you know people like this.I guess it would have a lot to do with the table also so there are way to many variables to give a definitive answer. Damn us and our logic!

[lostless]

Is there any chance he has Jacks. That would be consist with many donk plays. Few donks raise to isolate with Jacks. Call the flop and raise the turn with a flopped full house. But the river kinda kills that thought. I think my head says lay it down but my heart can't do it. The more I think about it about the more I think we are beat on the river. That being said there is a good chance I jam the check raise on the turn. Few people who call the flop and check-raise the turn are laying down to a reraise.

[gaddyjr]

I have seen the villain play Ax this way many times. I don't think that you can safely lead out here. I think your best bet is for him to have a J and be too worried about your check-raise on the turn to bet.I would check call a bet of $15 or less, and check fold to anything over that.Insano:While your thoughts were definitely interesting, I don't think an A usually raises on the flop when bet into. Why put the initial bettor on notice that you have an A? If you have an A you are praying that the bettor has a hand like KK, QQ, TT or KJ. Why not just smooth call hoping that he will continue to bet into you. Then, if the bettor checks the turn (like he did) you could bet it (like he did). IMO, the villain has Ax and the only reason he didn't reraise the turn is b/c he was worried that the hero had AK (a hand people often put preflop raisers on).