Small-ball For Cash Games

[akashenk 12]

I have been learning more about Daniel's small-ball strategies recently. I can see how this system could work very well, particularly in big-stack tournaments. However, I wonder if it is at all effective in cash games. Obviously tourney strategy differs from cash-game strategy, but I can't believe Daniel, and others who have cultivated the small-ball approach, vary their play immensely between the two. Or maybe I am being naive.Anyways, right off the bat I can see a few potential problems with playing small-ball in cash games, and I'm wondering if any small-ball proponents can comment on these.Making such small pre-flop raises, invariably leads to lots of callers. In fact, in many cash games I have played in places like Foxwoods or AC, a pre-flop bet of 2.5xBB is inviting a family pot. That is pretty much regardless of the level of the game, too. Once you have one or two callers, everyone else figures, "why not?". Even if you only get half the table to call, I'm not sure having 4 or 5 callers is what small-ball proponents have in mind. The sheer number of callers makes it so the pot gets "big" in a hurry, and it also makes it virtually impossible to put your opponents on a hand, given the fact that there are so many of them and they can have virtually anything. Sure, if you play small suited connectors, as is prescribed by small-ball, you have the chance of flopping monster draws and taking down a big pot. But I would think this doesn't happen nearly enough to justify all the pre-flop raises.So, for those of you who play small-ball, do you do so in cash games, and if so what, if any modifications do you make to the standard small-ball strategy?Thanks in advance...Al

[MiRee446 0]

the reason why you play small ball in tournaments is bc if you lose your stack you are out, so you want to avoid marginal situations for large amounts of chips. in cash games you can reload at any time so if you can get your whole stack in as a 51% favorite you should do it everytime (in a vaccuum, obviously there are situations where you prob don't want to push razor thin edges i.e. spewy opponents, limited bankroll, etc.)it is true that playing small ball in cash games would limit your losses but more importantly it would limit your wins. this isn't to say you shouldnt' incorporate small ball concepts like pot control into your game, but overdoing it can result in some breakeven to moderate wins at best.

[aknapp1112 0]

Mix it up somewhat, at least that is what I do. In other words, play "normal" pre-flop, minimize the pot size post flop in mariginal spots and ONLY play big pots on YOUR terms. I play small ball in my cash games, and have done quite well at it. Position is lot more key in my opinion as well. But the key, see lots of flops, but play only big pots on your terms.

[akashenk 12]

Mix it up somewhat, at least that is what I do. In other words, play "normal" pre-flop, minimize the pot size post flop in mariginal spots and ONLY play big pots on YOUR terms. I play small ball in my cash games, and have done quite well at it. Position is lot more key in my opinion as well. But the key, see lots of flops, but play only big pots on your terms.

So, if I understand you correctly... you might be more apt to limp in early position with small-ball type hands (like suited connectors) and only raise if you have late position, and when you raise, you raise enough to get the majority of players out? In this way, the pot might be larger pre-flop than in a traditional small-ball scenario, but you can continue to pay small ball after the flop. That seems pretty sound logic. My only concern would be that the amount you need to raise to get most hands out would be a non-insignificant percentage of your stack (if you are just starting out). Unless you are playing in a no-max game, then the buy-in max is usually 100-200 xBB. My experience is that in standard live cash games (not too tight, not too loose), one has to raise at least 6-10xBB in order to create a heads-up or 3-player post-flop hand. And if the game is loose, it could be almost double that. This is what makes live games so much different than online games. I suppose because there are so many fewer hands/hour, people really want to see those flops. Since you have to raise so much, and particularly since the raise amount may represent a sizeable chunk of your stack, then you definitely have to be pretty lucky early on, otherwise your stack may dwindle.I guess it comes down to one of two scenarios. Assuming you are playing a 2-5NL game, with $500 in front of you, and you are on the button, holding a small-ball hand, like suited connectors, is it better if:1) You make a small raise ($15) which results in 6 players in the hand going to the flop, or2) You make a sizeable raise ($30) which results in 3-way action.

[aknapp1112 0]

Standard answer here.. depends.If I am after someone, and they make a standard raise (cash games, about 4 - 6x BB is what I usually see in games I play), and I have 7d8d I am calling. I would also do the same thing with AdKd, QQ, etc. Leak of mine I guess, but only time I re-raise is with AA or KK. Now for my raises, I would do the same raise with AA or 5d6d, to me that is key, have to stay constant. I have also noticed with small ball type plays, people dont seem to remember what you raise with, but what you end up with. If you have been showing strong hands after the river, even if you got into pot pre-flop with "iffy" hands, that makes for good stealing chances when straights, flushes, etc.. hit the board.Also, if small ball type play isnt working.. tighten up and only play top hands, in position. Bad part about this type of play is you have to be big stacked to handle the "missed" boards, but when you do hit, you can get paid off quite a bit.Back to what I was saying before earlier too with small ball... play big pots ONLY on your terms. marginal pots, have to control that pot. Also, I rarely re-raise or even raise in a game, cause most of the time people think I am always chasing and will keep pushing even when I have a strong hand and they have a marginal hand. again, you have to build a reputation as a chaser, and that opens up a LOT of bluffing and stealing chances. Short and quick answer, but I am getting ready to go to a game. Hope we can discuss this some more as I always like discussing small ball in cash games.

[fe_devil 0]

Well i dont see anything wrong to play small ball in a cash game. Some rooms only allows you to buy the maximun of 100 BB. Thats pretty close to a Deep Stack Tournament stack. Playing an optimal smal ball strategy you can make a lot of money. The power of this strategy is to create a wild image and be able to overplay your oponents post flop. They must make big mistakes, and if you dont let them make those mistakes you wont win money! On the other hand you will have some heads up pots in the way!Im argentinean very few people know about small ball poker here, im doing very well right now! You must have faith in the system. In a cash game you have to mix it up too but you can play small ball for a long time. In a tournamen when the blinds increases you have to swicht to long ball poker too!Well guys i wont post too much because my english is poor!So remember:1. Let the others players make mistakes by raising small.2. Play position.3. Do not become a maniac.4. Have faith in the system.5. Share your winnings with me!