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New Challenge: Movin' On Up


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#5041 Ninja Ace

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 11:27 AM

So when you're running 20 BI under EV and feel like you're getting coolered to death as well over 15k+ hands... how do you keep yourself convinced you're a winning player?There really needs to be an EV calculator that factors in how many times some douchebag puts 1/3 or 1/2 his stack in pre only to flop a set on me
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#5042 SuperJon

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 11:59 AM

hmmmPosted ImageConverted by the cows of Feral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersCO: $32.03 (Hero)Button: $25.00 SB: $26.20 BB: $35.21 UTG: $47.01 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with :D :ts (5 players)UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 2 foldsFlop: ($1.85) :club: :qh :D (2 players)Hero bets $1, Button calls $1Turn: ($3.85) :5c (2 players)Hero checks, Button checksRiver: ($3.85) :D (2 players)Hero checks, Button checksHero showed :D :4h, and lost with a pair of TensButton showed :3h :jh, and won ($3.67) with a pair of QueensButton won $3.67(Rake: $0.18)
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#5043 KosinTrouble

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 12:53 PM

View PostSuperJon, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 12:59 PM, said:

hmmmPosted ImageConverted by the cows of Feral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersCO: $32.03 (Hero)Button: $25.00 SB: $26.20 BB: $35.21 UTG: $47.01 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with :D :ts (5 players)UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 2 foldsFlop: ($1.85) :club: :qh :D (2 players)Hero bets $1, Button calls $1Turn: ($3.85) :5c (2 players)Hero checks, Button checksRiver: ($3.85) :D (2 players)Hero checks, Button checksHero showed :D :4h, and lost with a pair of TensButton showed :3h :jh, and won ($3.67) with a pair of QueensButton won $3.67(Rake: $0.18)
heehee, now thats getting value! lolKosin Trouble

#5044 Nashtak

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:58 PM

View PostNinja Ace, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 2:27 PM, said:

So when you're running 20 BI under EV and feel like you're getting coolered to death as well over 15k+ hands... how do you keep yourself convinced you're a winning player?There really needs to be an EV calculator that factors in how many times some douchebag puts 1/3 or 1/2 his stack in pre only to flop a set on me
This
QUOTE (Tactical Bear @ Monday, December 27th, 2010, 4:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I had a nickel for every time I've had this exact same problem I would have zero nickels because I'm not a faggot.

#5045 XXEddie

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:01 PM

I'm too lazy to find the HH, but is 5-bet shoving AQ from the BB vs. SB for 100bbs standard? Here's a rough estimate of how the bet sizing went..10/.25 NLHE 6-maxFolds to SB, SB raises to .75, Hero raises to 2.60, SB raises to 7.5, Hero raises to $25 and is allin.I have AQo here.

#5046 BellaireDrew

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:14 PM

View PostXXEddie, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 4:01 PM, said:

I'm too lazy to find the HH, but is 5-bet shoving AQ from the BB vs. SB for 100bbs standard? Here's a rough estimate of how the bet sizing went..10/.25 NLHE 6-maxFolds to SB, SB raises to .75, Hero raises to 2.60, SB raises to 7.5, Hero raises to $25 and is allin.I have AQo here.
against a lot of regs I would say its pretty standard, but it would not be my default against an unknown
QUOTE (cwik @ Sunday, November 16th, 2008, 1:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Try balancing your range by beating her when you had a good day too.


#5047 Nashtak

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:47 PM

View PostBellaireDrew, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 5:14 PM, said:

against a lot of regs I would say its pretty standard, but it would not be my default against an unknown
I doubt so. I like the 3-bet but i fold to the 4-bet. I doubt he's 4-betting light here everr.
QUOTE (Tactical Bear @ Monday, December 27th, 2010, 4:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I had a nickel for every time I've had this exact same problem I would have zero nickels because I'm not a faggot.

#5048 trystero

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:10 PM

yea just echo what's said abovedon't underestimate the # of nits at 25nl.

#5049 fighter

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:20 PM

View PostNashtak, on Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 8:47 AM, said:

I doubt so. I like the 3-bet but i fold to the 4-bet. I doubt he's 4-betting light here everr.
So many regs watch training videos and know that when someone 3 bets you BBvSB, BTNvCO, BlindVBTN that they 4bet bluff really wide since 5betbluffing is uncommon. So shoving to exploit the wide bluff range or calling can be good plays. If we are planning on folding to a 4bet then we shouldn't be 3betting AQ. It is raising for information. Call the raise with AQ and 3bet something you wouldn't call with like A6 or 68s

#5050 fighter

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:26 PM

I guess this is a cooler but I don't know. I guess I could play AA,JT,QT,KK the same way. Still think it is a stupid hand though Posted ImageFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 6 playersSB: $50.00 BB: $50.75 (Hero)UTG: $52.15 UTG+1: $14.80 CO: $89.00 Button: $65.70 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with :4h :D (6 players)3 folds, Button raises to $1.75, SB calls $1.50, Hero raises to $6.50, Button calls $4.75, SB foldsFlop: ($14.75) :jh :club: :D (2 players)Hero bets $8, Button calls $8Turn: ($30.75) :3h (2 players)Hero bets $13, Button calls $13River: ($56.75) :qh (2 players)Hero bets $23.25, and is all in, Button calls $23.25Hero showed :5c :D, and won ($100.25) with a straight, King highButton mucked :ts :qdHero won $100.25(Rake: $3)

#5051 trystero

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:32 PM

Weird hand for him, cooler maybe

#5052 trystero

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:35 PM

only read is that he's a loose idiot and has called down w/TP (aces) before, not raisingFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($27.32)SB ($23.14)BB ($41.30)Hero (UTG) ($41.18)MP ($25)CO ($25.65)Preflop: Hero is UTG with K :club:, K :4hHero bets $0.75, 2 folds, Button calls $0.75, SB calls $0.65, 1 foldFlop: ($2.50) 2 :5c, 4 :3h, 6 :ts (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, Button raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero foldsTotal pot: $6 | Rake: $0.30Results:Button didn't showOutcome: Button won $5.70

#5053 BellaireDrew

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:37 PM

View Postfighter, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 5:26 PM, said:

I guess this is a cooler but I don't know. I guess I could play AA,JT,QT,KK the same way. Still think it is a stupid hand though
preflop im not a fan of either your 3 bet or his defend but i think both can be justified. Post tho its a cooler, no other way really for either of you to play your hands.
QUOTE (cwik @ Sunday, November 16th, 2008, 1:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Try balancing your range by beating her when you had a good day too.


#5054 trystero

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:41 PM

View Postfighter, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 6:20 PM, said:

If we are planning on folding to a 4bet then we shouldn't be 3betting AQ. It is raising for information. Call the raise with AQ and 3bet something you wouldn't call with like A6 or 68s
If villain's calling range is wide (like KQ/QJ/55) and his 4-betting range narrow (as is the case w/most 25nl regs) then it makes perfect sense to 3-bet/fold AQ.

#5055 fighter

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:42 PM

View PostBellaireDrew, on Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 9:37 AM, said:

preflop im not a fan of either your 3 bet or his defend but i think both can be justified. Post tho its a cooler, no other way really for either of you to play your hands.
Can you go into more detail of why you don't like the 3ball ?

#5056 fighter

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:51 PM

View Posttrystero, on Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 9:41 AM, said:

If villain's calling range is wide (like KQ/QJ/55) and his 4-betting range narrow (as is the case w/most 25nl regs) then it makes perfect sense to 3-bet/fold AQ.
Your right it does depend. Without reads though we shouldn't be turning AQ into a bluff (we 3bet they 4bet, we fold , we could do that with ATC)

#5057 BellaireDrew

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:53 PM

View Postfighter, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 5:42 PM, said:

Can you go into more detail of why you don't like the 3ball ?
I like turning hands just outside of our calling range into a bluff, which is what I believe you are doing here. But i prefer to do it with hands with a bit more playability. I guess K9s is ok, with a K blocker and the ability to make strong/nut flushes. I just like to do it with a hand like J9s or 68s or w/e. Hands with less RIO and can flop really well. Maybe its just a style thing. I don't think its a bad 3 bet, I just don't 3 bet that particular hand. I could be way off tho
QUOTE (cwik @ Sunday, November 16th, 2008, 1:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Try balancing your range by beating her when you had a good day too.


#5058 Nashtak

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:17 PM

View Postfighter, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 6:20 PM, said:

So many regs watch training videos and know that when someone 3 bets you BBvSB, BTNvCO, BlindVBTN that they 4bet bluff really wide since 5betbluffing is uncommon. So shoving to exploit the wide bluff range or calling can be good plays. If we are planning on folding to a 4bet then we shouldn't be 3betting AQ. It is raising for information. Call the raise with AQ and 3bet something you wouldn't call with like A6 or 68s
No way, i ain't simply gonna call a spot i could easily 3-bet for value simply because he could 4-bet back at me. I believe your reasoning is flawed; why would we go through with a hand we 3-betted light unless we believe his range is just as wide when he 4-bets, which it obviously isn't.The 2 decisions we have to make after his raise and his 4-bets should be threated as such, 2 decisions.Until i have a good reason to believe that the individual is experienced enough to pull a 4-bet bluff, i'll assume they never bluff unless it's on an obvious board. They are mostly Loose Passive down there, so i'll value bet them to death and give them credits on their raises much more.
QUOTE (Tactical Bear @ Monday, December 27th, 2010, 4:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I had a nickel for every time I've had this exact same problem I would have zero nickels because I'm not a faggot.

#5059 KingJames

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:26 PM

View Posttrystero, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 4:41 PM, said:

If villain's calling range is wide (like KQ/QJ/55) and his 4-betting range narrow (as is the case w/most 25nl regs) then it makes perfect sense to 3-bet/fold AQ.
I'm in this camp.I think a lot of regs are exploitable bc they will call a 3b too light in the sb BvB.So our 3b is for value, crushes his 3b calling range and is crushed by his 4betting range... 3b/fold... it seems dirty but I like!!!
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#5060 dlingdling

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:27 PM

View PostNashtak, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 5:17 PM, said:

No way, i ain't simply gonna call a spot i could easily 3-bet for value simply because he could 4-bet back at me. I believe your reasoning is flawed; why would we go through with a hand we 3-betted light unless we believe his range is just as wide when he 4-bets, which it obviously isn't.The 2 decisions we have to make after his raise and his 4-bets should be threated as such, 2 decisions.Until i have a good reason to believe that the individual is experienced enough to pull a 4-bet bluff, i'll assume they never bluff unless it's on an obvious board. They are mostly Loose Passive down there, so i'll value bet them to death and give them credits on their raises much more.
Against a non-reg, this reasoning makes sense. There's more value to the preflop 3bet because they're sticking around and will call oop with hands you crush. Against a reg, they'll 4bet and pick up the dead money most of the time, and as they narrow your calling/jamming range they'll widen their 4betting range and punish you more mercilessly. Or, they're going to fold and lose 2-4bb. You've gotten minimal value. Against these villains, you have more value through relative hand strength, position, and postflop skillz.EDIT: Plus, do the opposite of whatever James says.
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