9553 replies to this topic

[Ninja Ace]

So when you're running 20 BI under EV and feel like you're getting coolered to death as well over 15k+ hands... how do you keep yourself convinced you're a winning player?There really needs to be an EV calculator that factors in how many times some douchebag puts 1/3 or 1/2 his stack in pre only to flop a set on me

[SuperJon]

hmmmConverted by the cows of Feral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersCO: $32.03 (Hero)Button: $25.00 SB: $26.20 BB: $35.21 UTG: $47.01 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with (5 players)UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 2 foldsFlop: ($1.85) (2 players)Hero bets $1, Button calls $1Turn: ($3.85) (2 players)Hero checks, Button checksRiver: ($3.85) (2 players)Hero checks, Button checksHero showed , and lost with a pair of TensButton showed , and won ($3.67) with a pair of QueensButton won $3.67(Rake: $0.18)

[KosinTrouble]

SuperJon, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 12:59 PM, said:

hmmmConverted by the cows of Feral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersCO: $32.03 (Hero)Button: $25.00 SB: $26.20 BB: $35.21 UTG: $47.01 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with (5 players)UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 2 foldsFlop: ($1.85) (2 players)Hero bets $1, Button calls $1Turn: ($3.85) (2 players)Hero checks, Button checksRiver: ($3.85) (2 players)Hero checks, Button checksHero showed , and lost with a pair of TensButton showed , and won ($3.67) with a pair of QueensButton won $3.67(Rake: $0.18)

heehee, now thats getting value! lolKosin Trouble

[Nashtak]

Ninja Ace, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 2:27 PM, said:

So when you're running 20 BI under EV and feel like you're getting coolered to death as well over 15k+ hands... how do you keep yourself convinced you're a winning player?There really needs to be an EV calculator that factors in how many times some douchebag puts 1/3 or 1/2 his stack in pre only to flop a set on me

This

[XXEddie]

I'm too lazy to find the HH, but is 5-bet shoving AQ from the BB vs. SB for 100bbs standard? Here's a rough estimate of how the bet sizing went..10/.25 NLHE 6-maxFolds to SB, SB raises to .75, Hero raises to 2.60, SB raises to 7.5, Hero raises to $25 and is allin.I have AQo here.

[BellaireDrew]

XXEddie, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 4:01 PM, said:

I'm too lazy to find the HH, but is 5-bet shoving AQ from the BB vs. SB for 100bbs standard? Here's a rough estimate of how the bet sizing went..10/.25 NLHE 6-maxFolds to SB, SB raises to .75, Hero raises to 2.60, SB raises to 7.5, Hero raises to $25 and is allin.I have AQo here.

against a lot of regs I would say its pretty standard, but it would not be my default against an unknown

[Nashtak]

BellaireDrew, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 5:14 PM, said:

against a lot of regs I would say its pretty standard, but it would not be my default against an unknown

I doubt so. I like the 3-bet but i fold to the 4-bet. I doubt he's 4-betting light here everr.

[trystero]

yea just echo what's said abovedon't underestimate the # of nits at 25nl.

[fighter]

Nashtak, on Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 8:47 AM, said:

I doubt so. I like the 3-bet but i fold to the 4-bet. I doubt he's 4-betting light here everr.

So many regs watch training videos and know that when someone 3 bets you BBvSB, BTNvCO, BlindVBTN that they 4bet bluff really wide since 5betbluffing is uncommon. So shoving to exploit the wide bluff range or calling can be good plays. If we are planning on folding to a 4bet then we shouldn't be 3betting AQ. It is raising for information. Call the raise with AQ and 3bet something you wouldn't call with like A6 or 68s

[fighter]

I guess this is a cooler but I don't know. I guess I could play AA,JT,QT,KK the same way. Still think it is a stupid hand though Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 6 playersSB: $50.00 BB: $50.75 (Hero)UTG: $52.15 UTG+1: $14.80 CO: $89.00 Button: $65.70 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with (6 players)3 folds, Button raises to $1.75, SB calls $1.50, Hero raises to $6.50, Button calls $4.75, SB foldsFlop: ($14.75) (2 players)Hero bets $8, Button calls $8Turn: ($30.75) (2 players)Hero bets $13, Button calls $13River: ($56.75) (2 players)Hero bets $23.25, and is all in, Button calls $23.25Hero showed , and won ($100.25) with a straight, King highButton mucked :qdHero won $100.25(Rake: $3)

[trystero]

Weird hand for him, cooler maybe

[trystero]

only read is that he's a loose idiot and has called down w/TP (aces) before, not raisingFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($27.32)SB ($23.14)BB ($41.30)Hero (UTG) ($41.18)MP ($25)CO ($25.65)Preflop: Hero is UTG with K , K Hero bets $0.75, 2 folds, Button calls $0.75, SB calls $0.65, 1 foldFlop: ($2.50) 2 , 4 , 6 (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, Button raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero foldsTotal pot: $6 | Rake: $0.30Results:Button didn't showOutcome: Button won $5.70

[BellaireDrew]

fighter, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 5:26 PM, said:

I guess this is a cooler but I don't know. I guess I could play AA,JT,QT,KK the same way. Still think it is a stupid hand though

preflop im not a fan of either your 3 bet or his defend but i think both can be justified. Post tho its a cooler, no other way really for either of you to play your hands.

[trystero]

fighter, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 6:20 PM, said:

If we are planning on folding to a 4bet then we shouldn't be 3betting AQ. It is raising for information. Call the raise with AQ and 3bet something you wouldn't call with like A6 or 68s

If villain's calling range is wide (like KQ/QJ/55) and his 4-betting range narrow (as is the case w/most 25nl regs) then it makes perfect sense to 3-bet/fold AQ.

[fighter]

BellaireDrew, on Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 9:37 AM, said:

preflop im not a fan of either your 3 bet or his defend but i think both can be justified. Post tho its a cooler, no other way really for either of you to play your hands.

Can you go into more detail of why you don't like the 3ball ?

[fighter]

trystero, on Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 9:41 AM, said:

If villain's calling range is wide (like KQ/QJ/55) and his 4-betting range narrow (as is the case w/most 25nl regs) then it makes perfect sense to 3-bet/fold AQ.

Your right it does depend. Without reads though we shouldn't be turning AQ into a bluff (we 3bet they 4bet, we fold , we could do that with ATC)

[BellaireDrew]

fighter, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 5:42 PM, said:

Can you go into more detail of why you don't like the 3ball ?

I like turning hands just outside of our calling range into a bluff, which is what I believe you are doing here. But i prefer to do it with hands with a bit more playability. I guess K9s is ok, with a K blocker and the ability to make strong/nut flushes. I just like to do it with a hand like J9s or 68s or w/e. Hands with less RIO and can flop really well. Maybe its just a style thing. I don't think its a bad 3 bet, I just don't 3 bet that particular hand. I could be way off tho

[Nashtak]

fighter, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 6:20 PM, said:

So many regs watch training videos and know that when someone 3 bets you BBvSB, BTNvCO, BlindVBTN that they 4bet bluff really wide since 5betbluffing is uncommon. So shoving to exploit the wide bluff range or calling can be good plays. If we are planning on folding to a 4bet then we shouldn't be 3betting AQ. It is raising for information. Call the raise with AQ and 3bet something you wouldn't call with like A6 or 68s

No way, i ain't simply gonna call a spot i could easily 3-bet for value simply because he could 4-bet back at me. I believe your reasoning is flawed; why would we go through with a hand we 3-betted light unless we believe his range is just as wide when he 4-bets, which it obviously isn't.The 2 decisions we have to make after his raise and his 4-bets should be threated as such, 2 decisions.Until i have a good reason to believe that the individual is experienced enough to pull a 4-bet bluff, i'll assume they never bluff unless it's on an obvious board. They are mostly Loose Passive down there, so i'll value bet them to death and give them credits on their raises much more.

[KingJames]

trystero, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 4:41 PM, said:

If villain's calling range is wide (like KQ/QJ/55) and his 4-betting range narrow (as is the case w/most 25nl regs) then it makes perfect sense to 3-bet/fold AQ.

I'm in this camp.I think a lot of regs are exploitable bc they will call a 3b too light in the sb BvB.So our 3b is for value, crushes his 3b calling range and is crushed by his 4betting range... 3b/fold... it seems dirty but I like!!!

[dlingdling]

Nashtak, on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 5:17 PM, said:

No way, i ain't simply gonna call a spot i could easily 3-bet for value simply because he could 4-bet back at me. I believe your reasoning is flawed; why would we go through with a hand we 3-betted light unless we believe his range is just as wide when he 4-bets, which it obviously isn't.The 2 decisions we have to make after his raise and his 4-bets should be threated as such, 2 decisions.Until i have a good reason to believe that the individual is experienced enough to pull a 4-bet bluff, i'll assume they never bluff unless it's on an obvious board. They are mostly Loose Passive down there, so i'll value bet them to death and give them credits on their raises much more.

Against a non-reg, this reasoning makes sense. There's more value to the preflop 3bet because they're sticking around and will call oop with hands you crush. Against a reg, they'll 4bet and pick up the dead money most of the time, and as they narrow your calling/jamming range they'll widen their 4betting range and punish you more mercilessly. Or, they're going to fold and lose 2-4bb. You've gotten minimal value. Against these villains, you have more value through relative hand strength, position, and postflop skillz.EDIT: Plus, do the opposite of whatever James says.