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The Christian Poker Player


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I understand that religion is often a sketchy subject to most poker players, but please read and let me know what you think...Dear Daniel,I am aware that you more than likely get thousands of emails per day over the same subject on which you probably wrote a blog or article about at some point in your career. I am not writing you from the perspective as the star struck fan that I am, but rather I am writing from the perspective of a fellow Christian poker player. Like you, I am aware that my purpose in life is to serve for the Lord Jesus Christ. And like you, I lovvvvvve to play poker. I used to be a very competitive basketball player. I was good enough to potentially play division three basketball, but once I got there I realized that I wasn’t tall enough. So, after my retirement, my competitive urges have been entirely shifted to poker. Where I used to run, shoot, lift, etc. all day everyday for basketball I now spend playing SNGs, MTTs, and various cash games in order to build my bankroll and increase my experience.The problem that I face as a Christian poker player, is explaining to the devout Christian girlfriend that a Christian poker player is not an oxymoron. I’ve tried to explain to her that over time, I turned some $20 into my healthy bankroll and that if I ever lose all that money I’ll quit playing, but she doesn’t have that. I tried to explain to her that there is a little luck involved, but poker over the long run is a skill based game, but once again this doesn’t work. She feels as though poker is gambling, and gambling is a sin. Thus, she is disgusted that spend 30 or 40 hours a week sinning.I am just wondering what logic or reasoning you have to support the cause of the Christian poker player. Thank for your time and help. Good luck, or I should say play well and God bless.Sincerely,Bob Prestonprestorl@westminster.edu

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I understand that religion is often a sketchy subject to most poker players, but please read and let me know what you think...Dear Daniel,I am aware that you more than likely get thousands of emails per day over the same subject on which you probably wrote a blog or article about at some point in your career. I am not writing you from the perspective as the star struck fan that I am, but rather I am writing from the perspective of a fellow Christian poker player. Like you, I am aware that my purpose in life is to serve for the Lord Jesus Christ. And like you, I lovvvvvve to play poker. I used to be a very competitive basketball player. I was good enough to potentially play division three basketball, but once I got there I realized that I wasn’t tall enough. So, after my retirement, my competitive urges have been entirely shifted to poker. Where I used to run, shoot, lift, etc. all day everyday for basketball I now spend playing SNGs, MTTs, and various cash games in order to build my bankroll and increase my experience.The problem that I face as a Christian poker player, is explaining to the devout Christian girlfriend that a Christian poker player is not an oxymoron. I’ve tried to explain to her that over time, I turned some $20 into my healthy bankroll and that if I ever lose all that money I’ll quit playing, but she doesn’t have that. I tried to explain to her that there is a little luck involved, but poker over the long run is a skill based game, but once again this doesn’t work. She feels as though poker is gambling, and gambling is a sin. Thus, she is disgusted that spend 30 or 40 hours a week sinning.I am just wondering what logic or reasoning you have to support the cause of the Christian poker player. Thank for your time and help. Good luck, or I should say play well and God bless.Sincerely,Bob Prestonprestorl@westminster.edu
Bob, I recently wrote a letter to Daniel asking him the same thing, you are gonna get a lot of comments on this one. My response to this is, I never have felt convicted over playing. I have a relationship with God and He is my number one priority in life. If I felt like He ever asked me to stop playing, I would without any fuss. You have to make sure that is true of you too. If poker gets in the way of your relationship with God or your family, it might be time to lay the cards down for awhile. But, if not, don't worry about what other people think. Love God, love people, and honor God by playing good poker as if you were playing because He wanted you to. I'm a believer that not all Christians can play poker, or gamble, because they do not have the same self-control that you, I, or Daniel has. The same way with drinking, some Christians just can't do it, because they go overboard. Just don't go overboard and you should be fine. As for your girlfriend, don't be frustrated with her if you can help it. This is a complicated issue, just make sure she knows that God is still your God and that poker isn't. I hope that helps you some. God bless, brother.
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That's more less the stance that I take... let me know what you think about this article: http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/chri...gamblingsin.htm
I looked over that article. I can't really take anything from it that I haven't heard before. My whole stance is based on Christians having a personal RELATIONSHIP with God. Not everybody's realtionship with Him will be the same as mine. If he had a problem with it, he would tell me by convicting me through the Holy Spirit. As for praying at the table, I do. But, I pray for focus and wisdom at the table to make the best decisions i can make. i realize that in this game I'm gonna lose some, so I don't think it's wrong to ask for God's help with my focus. I remember when I was in high school, praying to God for my football team to win. Why would God rather me win than somebody on the other sideline praying the exact same thing? I don't think He does. I think that God is smart enough to realize this is a game, and in the scope of life, it really doesn't matter much, as long as i do my best, because the Bible says in all you do, do it as for God. So He wants you to do your best, but if you lose, He won't mind. As for captilizing on other peoples losses, THAT'S IN EVERY SPORT! So if playing poker is wrong because of that, every other sport is too.
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if god doesnt like you playing poker he should mind his own bussiness. Another thing how would god TELL you that he approves of it. He already said he didn't. Well actually he didnt say there was a big game of broken telephone for 300 years till someone decided to write it down. If you want to play poker play religion is out dated since when was it ok for other people to make decisions for you?

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religion is such a wonderful thing that everyone can have a different interpretation. sounds like your girlfriend simply has a different interpretation of the bible to you. Could be worse, wars have started this way.

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Alright here comes what everyone's been waiting for....Tell your girlfriend that instead of griping about not following things a 2000+ year old book says exactly word by word, she should be supporting your play. After all, isn't it a sin to let a sucker keep his money? Case closed.Also I believe the money changers were good people at heart.

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I am just wondering what logic or reasoning you have to support the cause of the Christian poker player.
Hey there. The answer to this one is easy: Nowhere in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is gambling forbidden. If your girlfriend can find one verse, just one, that clearly states that gambling and/or wagering is a sin (she won't be able to), then she would have a reason to be upset over your playing. As it is, she is falling into the trap that many Christians fall into of accepting man-made rules (the Catholic church, not the Bible, declared gambling sinful sometime in the 13th or 14th century) as scripture, rather than consulting the scriptures themselves.All the best, and I hope things work out with your girl.Leaf -
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Hey there. The answer to this one is easy: Nowhere in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is gambling forbidden. If your girlfriend can find one verse, just one, that clearly states that gambling and/or wagering is a sin (she won't be able to), then she would have a reason to be upset over your playing. As it is, she is falling into the trap that many Christians fall into of accepting a book of mythology and tall tails to be reality, and not the man made fiction that it is.All the best, and I hope things work out with your girl.Leaf -
FYP
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Hey there. The answer to this one is easy: Nowhere in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is gambling forbidden. If your girlfriend can find one verse, just one, that clearly states that gambling and/or wagering is a sin (she won't be able to), then she would have a reason to be upset over your playing. As it is, she is falling into the trap that many Christians fall into of accepting man-made rules (the Catholic church, not the Bible, declared gambling sinful sometime in the 13th or 14th century) as scripture, rather than consulting the scriptures themselves.All the best, and I hope things work out with your girl.Leaf -
What he said... lol Seriously, playing poker isn't sinful. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that it is. In fact, there is evidence in the Bible that suggests that God himself made a wager. He knew he couldn't lose the bet, mind you, but he did make a wager with Satan referring to Job. The only scripture that people may interpert as Jesus saying that gambling was wrong, was when they turned the church into a marketplace. Also, gambling in the church and making a mockery of it. My wife's family are as Christian as you can possibly be, and they have NO problem with what I do for a living. What I DO with the money is of concern, but not that I make it from poker. Based on your girlfriend's interpertation, she shouldn't be with a stock brocker, an entrepeneur, a restaurant owner, etc. All forms of business are a gamble. If the business fails, you go broke!
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What he said... lol Seriously, playing poker isn't sinful. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that it is. In fact, there is evidence in the Bible that suggests that God himself made a wager. He knew he couldn't lose the bet, mind you, but he did make a wager with Satan referring to Job. The only scripture that people may interpert as Jesus saying that gambling was wrong, was when they turned the church into a marketplace. Also, gambling in the church and making a mockery of it. My wife's family are as Christian as you can possibly be, and they have NO problem with what I do for a living. What I DO with the money is of concern, but not that I make it from poker. Based on your girlfriend's interpertation, she shouldn't be with a stock brocker, an entrepeneur, a restaurant owner, etc. All forms of business are a gamble. If the business fails, you go broke!
and if she doesn't litsen to advice such as this and the previous posts, ask her how she would like eating at mcdonalds her entire life
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Tell her that you've decided to use your mind and not be subject to indotrination and brainwashing. That you've decided to not believe in Santa Claus and fairy tales. You're atheist and you're leaving her for a girl who isn't a cult member.It will be akward at first.

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Tell her that you've decided to use your mind and not be subject to indotrination and brainwashing. That you've decided to not believe in Santa Claus and fairy tales. You're atheist and you're leaving her for a girl who isn't a cult member.It will be akward at first.
You're not catching on...not even a little bit. :club:
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If poker or gambling hurts ur own personal walk then its time to stop. If you begin to "live for poker" and its taken all ur time away from what u feel is more important then just walk away. I quit playin a little while ago b/c it was taking to much of my time up when i had much more important things to do. Its not a sin. What so many christians get caught up in are the varying forms of legalism. The forget that we are free from the Law. Its God's grace that set us free... just remember that and ull be fine. There are lines of course but for the most part dont let somebody tell u what u can and cant do...only God can do that

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Would any of you religious guys (DN especially since this is his life) quit playing poker if you HAD found something in the bible that said gambling is a sin?Im just curious.
No, i never would have started.
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Bob......Did she realize what you do for a living when you started dating ? If she started dating you knowing you played 30-40 hours a week, does she really think it's a sin or is she just afraid of what others will think. If she really believes it's a sin, why did she start dating you ? If I met someone who spent 30 to 40 hours a week planning serial murders (randomly picking something I would consider to be a sin), I would not be attracked to him and would not choose to date him. You could ask why she chose to date someone who is a "sinner" in her eyes. It seems more likely that she has let others define what is okay and what isn't. If this is not you primary job and/or you misled her, then ignore the above and you made your own bed :club:

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"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." -Hebrews 13:5"The desire of the slothful killeth him; for his hands refuse to labour. He coveteth greedily all the day long: but the righteous giveth and spareth not." - Proverbs 21:25-26"Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom. Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven." - Proverbs 23:4-5"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:24 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." - 1 Timothy 6:10And let's not forget the Tenth Commandment itself, from which one could easily make the inference that gambling is a sin. In fact, I would argue that to not make the inference that gambling is a sin from the spirit and letter of Biblical verses and Commandments would be selective observance, wherein abstinence proves to be so much of an inconvenience to people's desires that they seek to justify their actions with Holy loopholes.In the same manner that people point to the absence of any explicit condemnation of gambling in the Bible, people could argue that there is nothing in the Bible that overtly condemns homosexuality. In fact, the Hebrew transcription of the Bible leaves room for interpretation as to whether stories such as that of Sodom and Gomorrah, transcribed into English, ever actually make reference to same-sex relations.I guess my position is this: There have been too many threads about conflicted Christian poker players. It seems quite clear that any form of gambling is at odds with the spirit of the Bible, since it centers on the desire to amass wealth. We could get into a debate about whether this form of amassing is idle or noble work, but then we'd be quibbling over semantics. It seems that if someone wants to be a Christian and a poker player, it would be better for him or her to acknowledge that he or she chooses to gamble, rather than try to manipulate scripture (or a lack of scripture on point) to arrive at a happy rationalization.

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"The desire of the slothful killeth him; for his hands refuse to labour. He coveteth greedily all the day long: but the righteous giveth and spareth not." - Proverbs 21:25-26
This, in now way conflicts with playing poker as a means of employment. What you do with your money, now that's different. As far as refusing labour, poker is a job to many.
"Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom. Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven." - Proverbs 23:4-5
Once again, this doesn't relate at all to the idea that playing poker to earn your living is wrong. It says that money shouldn't be what you are working for. This would be true of a lawyer, banker, doctor, or whatever. If your goal is money, that is the sin. If you play poker to earn money, and then use that money for good, that is a different story entirely.
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:24
Ahh... I know this one. It scared the begeebies out of me when I first read it. Since it's impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, I figured I was doomed, lol! Then it was explained to me, that the "eye of a needle" was what they called the entrance to castles where a camel would have to STRUGGLE to get under it and into the castle. That makes perfect sense. If you are rich, there is more risk of being sinful. There is more tempation, and A LOT more pressure.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." - 1 Timothy 6:10
If you are doing WHATEVER you are doing for a living, for the love of money, than that is a sinful way to be. That has little to do with your choice in profession. If I play basketball and want to be in the NBA so that I could be rich and famous and keep it all for myself... that's a problem. How about the NBA player who loves God, loves his family, loves children, and uses his position to help others? Or, how about the POKER PLAYER who loves God, loves his family, loves children, and uses the money he earns to better other people's lives? How could the fact that he earned it playing poker be deemed sinful based on any of the scripture you provided? In closing, I want to say that I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to look through scripture to find these verses. They are all very powerful, and very meaningful. However, I stand firm on the fact that none of the verses do a good job of condeming gambling for a living. Or, better yet, being a stock trader.
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Wow, a discussion about religion/poker in General that hasn't broken down into an immature, name-calling fest. I'm impressed right now.And, even as an atheist, DN's explanations of the Biblical quotes make sense. They all talk about the evil/sinfulness of greed/excess, but not necessarily about gambling per se. There is a difference.

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In the same manner that people point to the absence of any explicit condemnation of gambling in the Bible, people could argue that there is nothing in the Bible that overtly condemns homosexuality. In fact, the Hebrew transcription of the Bible leaves room for interpretation as to whether stories such as that of Sodom and Gomorrah, transcribed into English, ever actually make reference to same-sex relations.
Actually there are a couple of references to homosexuality.One i forgot but i think it is in the old testiment somewhere....Corinthians 6Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God
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Ahh... I know this one. It scared the begeebies out of me when I first read it. Since it's impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, I figured I was doomed, lol! Then it was explained to me, that the "eye of a needle" was what they called the entrance to castles where a camel would have to STRUGGLE to get under it and into the castle.
And furthermore ... if one continues reading that passage we see the following:"When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, 'Who then can be saved?' But Jesus looked at them and said to them, 'With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'"The emphasis in this entire passage (dealing with the rich young ruler asking what he yet lacked) is that reliance on God is key, not reliance on self, on one's wealth, power, or what have you. The rich young ruler was clearly more attached to his wealth and power than he was to God and THIS is what causes problems ... any attachment to anything over and above one's devotion to God.
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