I want to debate this..Poker Gambling or a Sport?

[foodbanker 0]

This is definitely a tricky subject. To this day, one of my biggest fears is whenever someone asks me what i do for a living. For we all know that when we meet people, their occupation is connected to how we perceive them. If some one tells you he is a doctor, then many perceptions of what that person is already created. ok...enough of that..I've been involved with cards for 18 years now. 10 years ago, I truelly believed at poker is not gambling. We find good players can enventually come on top over bad, playing by luck people. However, as I age, and hoping i'm wiser now, I'm come to a definite conclusion, that this game that we at this website love, is Gambling. Period!No, matter how well we do, poker is gambling and dangerous. Poker should not be classified as a sport. Why? If Barry Bonds went out and struck out at every bat, is his bank account deducted by $500,000? When Tiger Woods is away from the golf course, his mind is not on golf. Poker player, our mind cannot get away from thinking of poker more than 20 minutes. Anyways, I was just wondering what others think because I hear on tv and some places of people trying to push poker as a sport. Its like comparing apples and oranges. POker is a gambling game. Sports is a competition between two entities where the triumph of victory is great, but the lose of the loser is rarely anymore than pride.

[JustinHEMI04 0]

I agree that it is not a sport. To me a sport is a physical contest of some sort, or physical activity. Poker is a game. A gambling game at that. Yes it requires skill, but not of the sporting sense. People get fatter playing poker. Justin

[mx957 0]

Well, Tiger and Barry might not get money deducted from their account if they go in the tank, but then thier endorsment deals and contracts won't be renewed either. Right now most poker players are putting up the money for thier entry fee's but with satalite tourney's and the like it get's much more economical to enter the high dollar tourneys. Endorsment deals are available to some of the top pro's but aren't as lucrative as the other top pro's in the major sports.I guess it comes down to the definition of a Sport. I don't think that poker takes any physical talent that most sports do, but mental acuity is crucial.

[Wilderness 0]

Yeah, I don't think poker can be classified as a sport. I think that a sport has to be a physical activity. That's not to take anything away from the mental abilities you need to be great in poker because mentally I think poker is a lot tougher than most sports or games.It is gambling though because there is always risk and there is always a factor that you cannot control. Skill is very much involved, and the more skillful you are the less your cards matter, but in the end the cards that are dealt do come into play and no amount of skill can change that. Its gambling, but its not a game of pure chance like roulette.So I think its a gambling game and not a sport. I don' t think the classification matters, because I don't think that a sport is necessarily better than a game or vice versa, they just are what they are.

[elkang 0]

There have been good articles on this... sorry I cant post links.A sport is "an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition". The physical aspect is clear here. Gambling is "To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest"So, poker is a competition and definitely gambling. But, unless you count the grueling days of a multi player tourney, or the body language skills of reading/bluffing it is not really a sport. It is a game, like the game of basketball or chess.

[Dane 0]

Poker is a in the same class as Chess, Bridge and Backgammon, not really a sport, but you could call it a brainsport

[tolbert 0]

Poker may not have been classified as a sport prior to this year. But now with the creation of the Professional Poker Tour, it should gain the recognition that the sport deserves. This is a series of tournaments with sponsored buy ins, much like the PGA Tour. Each player will have a tour card that they will keep by consistently getting results in these tournaments. If you want people to think of your job as a sport, qualify for a PPT tour card and you will be a pro in a pro sport.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Who cares if you think of it as a sport or gambling? Obviously its gambling, no "sport" has people putting up their own money against someone else doing the same...but again I ask, who cares?I don't really see the point of this discussion.Poker should be in the olympics though...Ballroom dancing is, so why not poker?

[Wilderness 0]

Poker may not have been classified as a sport prior to this year. But now with the creation of the Professional Poker Tour, it should gain the recognition that the sport deserves. This is a series of tournaments with sponsored buy ins, much like the PGA Tour. Each player will have a tour card that they will keep by consistently getting results in these tournaments. If you want people to think of your job as a sport, qualify for a PPT tour card and you will be a pro in a pro sport.

I don't think that comparing the PPT and the PGA is really all that accurate. Golf is a sport because its a physical contest, not because it has its own tour. Poker is not a sport because its not a physical game. There's nothing that something being a sport makes it better than something that is a game. Its just different classifications.

[brando 0]

I have to disagree with poker not being physical. You may not have to have coordination, but your physical condition definately helps you at the poker table, espicially in tournaments such as the main event at the WSOP. In 2003 they had 2 phases on 2 seperate days, and of the final 9 only 1 of them played in phase 2. Now that could just be coincidence, but I happen to believe that day of rest was extremely beneficial.

[ivan 0]

Poker is a in the same class as Chess, Bridge and Backgammon, not really a sport, but you could call it a brainsport

And that's what it is: a mindsport. Poker, backgammon, chess and the mindsport par excellence Go all require advanced decision-making skills. The betting component of poker blurs the lines somewhat but chess is played in much the same way, with players staking their own money in heads-up matches where the winner takes all. Still, I consider roulette and craps to be gambling, where the luck factor is maximized, or horse-track betting; none of which have the same level of hands-on decision-making involvement as does poker.I mentioned Go. Below is a link to an interactive teaching tool that will expose one to the elementary basics of the world's most sublime and sophisticated game.http://playgo.to/interactive/Advanced study:http://senseis.xmp.net/[/url]

[theresa113 0]

Ballroom dancing is physical activity. So is figure skating, football, baseball, etc. Poker, though hard on your back at times from leaning over and bad posture, is not a sport. I wish it was so I could say I am getting my exercise while playing, but let's face, anyone can play, regardless of age or physicality.

[ivan 0]

The presence or lack of physical activity is totally irrelevant to mindsports. Poker, like Chess, Backgammon, Go, etc., is a mindsport. It's not a terribly difficult concept.

[foodbanker 0]

a reply to jack24bauer24....here is a quote from your post " don't really see the point of this discussion. Poker should be in the olympics though...Ballroom dancing is, so why not poker?"There is something critical in the labeling. The ideal that someday that poker maybe classified as a sport is very dangerous and scary. Many lives, fortunes, health and relationships have been broken from poker. Anytime someone wins...someone must lose. How do you know that the last time you went to the casino, you did not just win money that made someone lose his or her rent?Your answer of "WHO CARES" is exactly the reason we should not label poker as a sport. For its people who are too niave that we try to protect.

[tilted 0]

I think poker is a game. I don't like the example of a activity having to be physical to be a sport. I do not consider table tennis a sport but it does require some physical ability.

[Guest]

As much as i'd like to see it get in the Olympics, it is NOT a sport. Sports require a combination of skill, coordination more than MINIMAL physical activity, mental toughness, and almost ALWAYS .....A BALL. People in golf do not put up their own money because USUALLY they have a sponsor. Or they go through Q-school, the golf "equivalent" of a satellite. Just because ESPN covers it doesn't make it a sport or i guess you would want to discuss the Spelling Bee too??Lets enjoy poker for what it truly is....Unique. A test of mental toughness & will that can be played by skinny or fat people with the same potential ability. To play in a sport COMPETIVELY would require you be an ATHLETE. To play poker all you need is a buy in and Two brain cells that aren't fighting over space in your head.I wish poker could be an Olympic event, after all so is Bridge. But lets not call it a sport, because it isn't one.

[Metaphysician 0]

Why bother with the semantics?What we really need to do to legitimize poker in the eyes of the public, is show it for what it really is. You can start negatively: It's not like sports in that it involves no physical activity and it involves no ball(which is only common to sports, not necessary). It is not like most forms of gambling like roulette, craps and keno in that it's not played against the house and is not purely luck.Then we move on to positives, etc.If we could avoid calling poker "gambling" it would be advantageous in some ways. But we really need to show the world at large that to win at poker(winning at poker being a long-term thing) you have to have SKILL. Luck will not do.

[rog 0]

Who cares if you think of it as a sport or gambling? Obviously its gambling, no "sport" has people putting up their own money against someone else doing the same...but again I ask, who cares?

Every tournament sport has people putting up their own (or sponsors) money against others doing the same, including golf. Ever seen a skins game? It's a game played with a direct bet on every hole. Tell me that's less gambling than a poker tournament?Gambling and sport are not mutually exclusive. It can be both. In my opinion, poker is a game, and golf is a sport. Poker tournaments and golf tournaments are both not gambling since you're not playing directly for your wagers. If you miss a shot (or a draw), you dont see any money leaving your stake. Skins games and poker money cash games are both gambling.I do think poker belongs on the sports channels though. The competitive aspects of the game make it appeal to pretty much the same crowd. Better that than wraslin'!Rog

[Guest]

I like the term "Mindsport" Let's face it, poker is just not a TRUE sport. You have to realize that no matter how silly it is, Table Tennis is truly a sport. This notion that because its not like Football or Baseball then its "not really a sport" is crazy, Ballroom dancing is NOT a sport, its an event, or a contest.Most any true athlete or sports expert will tell you that without a ball, or In hockeys case a puck, you do not have a sport. Even Badmitton is a sport, but i'd rather be a great poker player than even Mediocre at Table Tennis or Badmitton.Another thing earlier in this someone called Basketball a GAME,,,,in it's SIMPLEST terms yes but cmon, in this dicussion it obviously is a sport. Your High School doesn't give letters for CHECKERS, or BACKGAMMON, we could get into band, but let's leave them alone for the sake of being nice.Lastly,,,,Whoever wrote this gemAnytime someone wins...someone must lose. How do you know that the last time you went to the casino, you did not just win money that made someone lose his or her rent?Can we please leave the politically correct crap for your kids tee ball team? Why has this planet gotten so soft?? Who cares if i took their rent money??? GOOD if they are so stupid they should just save enough for a cardboard box & a cup of coffee.I'll take your granny's Social Security check if I have the best hand!!! I'd play Santa Claus for your kids Christmas presents!!!What kind of poker player are you if you CARE about the opponents money?? Are you gonna say... "Gee he looks hungry i'll lay down my full house so he can get a bagel" ?? :bubblesigh: :wall:

[Smasharoo 0]

Poker's nothing like chess or checkers or scrabble or whatever. It might be closer to backgammon, I'm honestly not that fammiliar with backgammon probablities.If you play chess with a very good chess player, let's say Gary Kasparov for the sake of argument 1000000 times, he's going to win 1000000 times. If you play checkers with however the world checker champion is, over 1000 games he's going to win 1000 games. If you play in the WSOP and play horribly you'll eventually win it if you enter enough times. Not even vaguely the same. Poker is a game of gambling with an edge, it involves skill, but it's still mainly luck. You can play perfectly and have loosing MONTHS. Daniel playing his mom heads up is probably a 70% favorite meaning if they play 10 times he'll win 7.Something to think about.

[ivan 0]

Not even vaguely the same. Poker is a game of gambling with an edge, it involves skill, but it's still mainly luck.

Wrong. Poker is a game of skill with an element of chance. But it is not the element of chance which distinguishes it from chess, for example. I don't think you can know that much about poker, unfortunately, and write the above post that you did. Poker is indeed a mindsport, like chess, and as such has more in common with chess -- even taking into consideration chess's complete lack of chance elements -- than it does, say, with craps, fully taking into account the maximized chance elements of that particular pursuit.

[foodbanker 0]

Currently, a PPT (Professional Poker Tour) has been formed. Our Man, Daniel is a member of the PPT Committee. Members of the Committee have the power to put individuals on the PPT to play for 5 million dollars annually. Personally, I'm all for the PPT. However, its a step toward trying to make poker "appear" like a sport. Similar to the PGA.It's at this junction in time and history that has me concerned. For 10 years, I played poker to pay my bills. And for ten years, I've hated it. In the beginning, I saw all wonders and glamour and competition it attracts us. However, I also saw the destructive part of poker. The men I see in the casinos are mostly single. Many with Character flaws. Most with a subpar personal life. Many go broke. When, I play poker, I'm play to take their money. I must kill or be killed. I truelly understand the compeition part of it. The skilled players will eventually always win. But, to label poker as a "sport" will harm more individuals than good. I am truelly concerned of young people's perception that playing poker professionally is an obtainable goal because its labeled a "sport".

[Guest Anonymous]

Poker is not a sport and will NOT be considered as such until PRO-LINE allows us to bet on it! LOL!!!!Seriously though, my first instincts are that poker is not a sport because it is not a physical activity, but is this really true? I mean, playing poker takes a toll on the human body (brain included) and some may argue that it takes more of a toll than golf. Also, as in golf, players only get paid when they finish in the money. Does the fact that a golf player pays to enter a tournament and only gets paid if he/she finishes high enough in the standings disqualify golf as a sport (no golf-hatin' wisecracks here). I don't think it does so why do some people use this so-called logic to argue against poker being a sport?The biggest (and perhaps only) reason I can come up with that excludes poker from being classified as a sport is the fact that so much of the outcome depends on randomness. While a sport such as hockey or baseball has elements that are affected by "bad bounces" these "bad bounces" are a result of some other action initiated by the players. Poker on the other hand has "bad bounces (or beats in this case)" that are a result of complete randomness. There was no player action that affected the cards that came up. I could discuss this more, but I've either become bored with the topic or my ADHD is kicking in. By the way, ADHD and poker is not a good combination!