96 replies to this topic

[Balloon guy]

Roll the Bones, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 2:36 PM, said:

Hey, just providing entertainment for you, but yowza, don't compare me to him or I'll cut you like a b!tch.

I knew that was the lowest blow I could hit you with.I apologize.Just being ornery I guess.

[vbnautilus]

Roll the Bones, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 2:23 PM, said:

Dawkins reply on youtube, pretty awesome.

It really is an awesome speech.

[Roll the Bones]

Balloon guy, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 5:39 PM, said:

I knew that was the lowest blow I could hit you with.I apologize.Just being ornery I guess.

haha

vbnautilus, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 5:47 PM, said:

It really is an awesome speech.

Yes, yes it was.

[SuitedAces21]

vbnautilus, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 4:47 PM, said:

It really is an awesome speech.

I'm with Dawkins for two obvious reasons:(1) He is right.(2) The British accent is profoundly intellectual.

[Roll the Bones]

The Nazi's had an expansive list of banned books.-Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism.-All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk.In fact, Dawkin's book, The God Delusion would have been banned.

[Balloon guy]

Roll the Bones, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 3:07 PM, said:

The Nazi's had an expansive list of banned books.-Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism.-All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk.In fact, Dawkin's book, The God Delusion would have been banned.

That's because they also required at least 3 things to be true in the book.But we already know that Nazis and Communist didn't get along.Two interpretations of Darwinian evolution that clashed, and killed millions of people on their way.

[Roll the Bones]

I'll see your quotes and raise you 30. Your move.The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement) was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work."[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]"I have followed [the Church] in giving our party program the character of unalterable finality, like the Creed. The Church has never allowed the Creed to be interfered with. It is fifteen hundred years since it was formulated, but every suggestion for its amendment, every logical criticism, or attack on it, has been rejected. The Church has realized that anything and everything can be built up on a document of that sort, no matter how contradictory or irreconcilable with it. The faithful will swallow it whole, so long as logical reasoning is never allowed to be brought to bear on it."[Adolf Hitler, from Rauschning, _The Voice of Destruction_, pp. 239-40]"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed."[Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering a political opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism on his personal Christian feelings. Published in "My New Order", quoted in Freethought Today April 1990]"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]"What we have to fight for...is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator."[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 125]"This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief."[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.152]"And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God."[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.174]"Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another... while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.309]"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]"Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook."[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, p. 171]"I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 1]"I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna's destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 2]"...the unprecedented rise of the Christian Social Party... was to assume the deepest significance for me as a classical object of study."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]"As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]"Political parties has nothing to do with religious problems, as long as these are not alien to the nation, undermining the morals and ethics of the race; just as religion cannot be amalgamated with the scheming of political parties."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]"For the political leader the religious doctrines and institutions of his people must always remain inviolable; or else has no right to be in politics, but should become a reformer, if he has what it takes![Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]"In nearly all the matters in which the Pan-German movement was wanting, the attitude of the Christian Social Party was correct and well-planned."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]"It [Christian Social Party] recognized the value of large-scale propaganda and was a virtuoso in influencing the psychological instincts of the broad masses of its adherents."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]"If Dr. Karl Lueger had lived in Germany, he would have been ranked among the great minds of our people."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3, about the leader of the Christian Social movement]"Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 5]"I had so often sung 'Deutschland u:ber Alles' and shouted 'Heil' at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 5]"Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 5]"I soon realized that the correct use of propaganda is a true art which has remained practically unknown to the bourgeois parties. Only the Christian- Social movement, especially in Lueger's time achieved a certain virtuosity on this instrument, to which it owed many of its success."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 6]"Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 7, reflecting on World War I]"The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be, the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as it continues to depend on human beings... If this were not so, the founders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men of this earth... In its workings, even the religion of love is only the weak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance, however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to a universal human development of culture, ethics, and morality."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 8]"To them belong, not only the truly great statesmen, but all other great reformers as well. Beside Frederick the Great stands Martin Luther as well as Richard Wagner."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 8]"The fight against syphilis demands a fight against prostitution, against prejudices, old habits, against previous conceptions, general views among them not least the false prudery of certain circles. The first prerequisite for even the moral right to combat these things is the facilitation of earlier marriage for the coming generation. In late marriage alone lies the compulsion to retain an institution which, twist and turn as you like, is and remains a disgrace to humanity, an institution which is damned ill-suited to a being who with his usual modesty likes to regard himself as the 'image' of God."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10]"Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth...Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10, echoing the Cultural Warfare rhetoric of the Religious Right]"But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10]"While both denominations maintain missions in Asia and Africa in order to win new followers for their doctrine-- an activity which can boast but very modest success compared to the advance of the Mohammedan faith in particular-- right here in Europe they lose millions and millions of inward adherents who either are alien to all religious life or simply go their own ways. The consequences, particularly from a moral point of view, are not favorable."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10]"The great masses of people do not consist of philosophers; precisely for the masses, faith is often the sole foundation of a moral attitude. The various substitutes have not proved so successful from the standpoint of results that they could be regarded as a useful replacement for previous religious creeds. But if religious doctrine and faith are really to embrace the broad masses, the unconditional authority of the content of this faith is the foundation of all efficacy."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10]"Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him. And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form. Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world."[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 11]"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation."

[BaseJester]

Balloon guy, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 3:50 PM, said:

Hmmm.Hitler said the German people were farther advanced from an evolutionary stand point then others.Hitler used this 'science' to justify cleaning the gene pool of undesirables.Yea..it's not that big of a stretch to make that connection.

What do you think would happened after Hitler killed off millions of Jews and Gypsies? Do you think the next generation of Europeans contained fewer Jews and Gypsies than there would have been without Hitler's genocide?Assuming your answer is yes, then you and Hitler share a correct practical understanding of genocide's effect. You don't have to believe in evolution through natural selection to believe in artificial selection.

[Balloon guy]

BaseJester, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 3:50 PM, said:

What do you think would happened after Hitler killed off millions of Jews and Gypsies? Do you think the next generation of Europeans contained fewer Jews and Gypsies than there would have been without Hitler's genocide?Assuming your answer is yes, then you and Hitler share a correct practical understanding of genocide's effect. You don't have to believe in evolution through natural selection to believe in artificial selection.

But Hitler believed in a clear superiority through breeding and genes that justified his declaration that Aryans were the future of the world, and it was for the betterment of the world to remove Jewish blood from the gene pool.Dramatically different from someone who believes that killing all the Italians will result in fewer Italians in the world.

[brvheart]

Roll the Bones, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 4:38 PM, said:

Yeah, but there is that Batismal certificate and the biblical quotes he used to justify getting Christians to kill Jews. Not that Christians weren't always behind a good genocide given the chance.

A sphincter says what?

[BaseJester]

Balloon guy, on Monday, September 20th, 2010, 10:23 PM, said:

But Hitler believed in a clear superiority through breeding and genes that justified his declaration that Aryans were the future of the world, and it was for the betterment of the world to remove Jewish blood from the gene pool.

Which, again, does not require a belief in the theory of natural selection.

[Balloon guy]

BaseJester, on Tuesday, September 21st, 2010, 2:48 AM, said:

Which, again, does not require a belief in the theory of natural selection.

But it sure explains where his insane plans are justified.Cause they're not justified in the Christian faith, yet some are accusing Hitler of being a follower of that faith because of his words used during his rise to power.A politician's speech vs a politician's actions.Me, I judge him by his actions and my enjoyment when I lump him into your camp.It is extremely easy to do this, extremely.Because Natural Selection, if followed, is the most cruel method of breeding that could be invented.But when done naturally we praise it for it's efficiency, when done by a human we condemn it for it's evilness.That schizophrenic approach is telling.

[vbnautilus]

Hey, remember when you guys killed almost all the native americans? Haha that was awesome.

[Balloon guy]

vbnautilus, on Tuesday, September 21st, 2010, 8:23 AM, said:

Hey, remember when you guys killed almost all the native americans? Haha that was awesome.

Was it us?Or RUTHLESS DETERMINATION?

[JoeyJoJo]

DETERMINISMBut still awesome.

[FCP Bob]

vbnautilus, on Tuesday, September 21st, 2010, 11:23 AM, said:

Hey, remember when you guys killed almost all the native americans? Haha that was awesome.

[LongLiveYorke]

Balloon guy, on Tuesday, September 21st, 2010, 11:52 AM, said:

Was it us?Or RUTHLESS DETERMINATION?

It was Ruthless Determination. Except for the Apache. That was me.

[Balloon guy]

LongLiveYorke, on Tuesday, September 21st, 2010, 10:34 AM, said:

It was Ruthless Determination. Except for the Apache. That was me.

JoeyJoJo, on Tuesday, September 21st, 2010, 8:55 AM, said:

DETERMINISMBut still awesome.

[Roll the Bones]

Balloon guy, on Tuesday, September 21st, 2010, 11:12 AM, said:

But it sure explains where his insane plans are justified.Cause they're not justified in the Christian faith, yet some are accusing Hitler of being a follower of that faith because of his words used during his rise to power.A politician's speech vs a politician's actions.Me, I judge him by his actions and my enjoyment when I lump him into your camp.It is extremely easy to do this, extremely.Because Natural Selection, if followed, is the most cruel method of breeding that could be invented.But when done naturally we praise it for it's efficiency, when done by a human we condemn it for it's evilness.That schizophrenic approach is telling.

If you want to lump him into our camp, then make the case he was a secular humanist. You always want to blame athiesm as being responsible for repressive ideologies, yet only defend yours as saying that those were "worse" then yours. Athiesm is only a term describing the lack of belief in a creator, it is not an ideology. The fact of the matter is that humanists have always been the enemy of Christianity, and particulary secular humanists in this day and age.

[BaseJester]

Balloon guy, on Tuesday, September 21st, 2010, 11:12 AM, said:

Because Natural Selection, if followed, is the most cruel method of breeding that could be invented.

Natural selection isn't a philosophy. Believing in gravity doesn't mean you're against jumping. We've been through this.