ActionFalko 0 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Evrybody in this forum talks about, "you should have raised the flop, to define your hand,..." or "This hand plays much easier would you have raised the flop..."OK fact is, I am probably the newest player here in this forum, but I want to put in a list, where I am raising the flop:I raise the flop, when: - I have the best hand for sure - I dont want somebody to draw to a better hand like flushes and straights - I have a vulnerable hand like TT on 732 Flop, to protect against Overcards.But should I really raise to define my hand, if I have position.Doesnt the turn action from our opponent tell us more than the raise on the flop???Lets say we have: QQWe call a raise on the Button (Lets forget for the moment that you could have reraised in that spot)Flop:38KOur opponen c-bets. Isnt it much easier and cheaper to just call his c-bet. Because if he has us beat we dont put more money in the pot. if we are ahead he probably would fold to a raise. And since there is only one card left which is higher than the king, we dont have to worry about giving free cards, right? Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 As with many aspects of poker, it depends.I tend to just call in many situations that others would raise, but it depends on your overall style, your opponent and various other factors. Do you trap with your big hands regularly? On the flop of K83 would you call with AK or 88 or KK? If you would never call there with a strong hand, it will be obvious that you don't have a strong hand when you call there with QQ. However, if you regularly slowplay, your opponent will have to fear a trap.Also, if your opponent is likely to not fire a second bullet with a worse hand, waiting for the turn is clearly better in many situations.Against a tricky/LAG player you want to make your decisions easier, so by raising earlier in the hand you can generally know better where you are.Again, it all depends... Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 herei'll use an example roberts2003 postedKK in bb, 4 limp, he makes it $17 (1/2blinds)sb callsflop JJxsb leads $20here he should raise to $50-$60 and basically end his investment. If he is 3bet- obv fold...you've spent $50-$60 post flop.Now, say he just calls, ok, $20 so far.Then the turn comes x and he has to call say $40-$60, so now we are up to 60-80 postflopthen you have to call another $80 to $100 on the river.Obvioulsy this is much more expensive than "defining" your hand on the flop.obv turn play is kinda bleh if he just calls your flop raise, but htat's a bridge we cross when we get there.now you dont' always ahve to raise to "see" or w/e, where yo uare at...but it's much better than just calling down all the time.esp when you deal with players who will lead with their draws, mid pairs..and stuff like that....passivitiy is just ugly.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Isnt it much easier and cheaper to just call his c-bet.No. Because there are two more streets of betting coming. It'll add up, I promise. Define the hand on the flop by raising. You'll be stunned STUNNED how many times you'll get the fold. And use your head, too. Learn what the villain is likely to play. I know of a handful of guys in the local cardroom that, if I saw this flop and a bet from them, I would AUTO-MUCK. Others, I raise. Sometimes, huge, because I know when they're playing connectors and gappers 80% of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
DCJ001 0 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Evrybody in this forum talks about, "you should have raised the flop, to define your hand,..." or "This hand plays much easier would you have raised the flop..." Not everybody in this forum talks about, "you should have raised the flop, to define your hand,..." http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...t&p=1719528 Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Not everybody in this forum talks about, "you should have raised the flop, to define your hand,..." http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...t&p=1719528 Yeah, but what does that guy know? Link to post Share on other sites
ActionFalko 0 Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 Yeah, but what does that guy know?I didnt want to punish somebody. Sorry if you got angry."What does that guy know"...Just because I am new to poker doesnt mean I can ask some questions. I think its better if I ask, than just playing bad poker all the time. Sorry... Link to post Share on other sites
ActionFalko 0 Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 I didnt want to punish somebody. Sorry if you got angry."What does that guy know"...Just because I am new to poker doesnt mean I can ask some questions. I think its better if I ask, than just playing bad poker all the time. Sorry... UPPS! I think you meant Daniel, didn`t you?Sorry, I thought you want to fool me. I saw the link after i posted. SORRYYeah, Daniel rulez... Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I didnt want to punish somebody. Sorry if you got angry."What does that guy know"...Just because I am new to poker doesnt mean I can ask some questions. I think its better if I ask, than just playing bad poker all the time. Sorry... He wasn't talking about you...He linked a post by DN, and he was jokingly saying DN didn't know what he was talking about. Link to post Share on other sites
ActionFalko 0 Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 He wasn't talking about you...He linked a post by DN, and he was jokingly saying DN didn't know what he was talking about.Yeah I just saw and said SORRY. TY nevertheless.Very embarassing for me... SHAME Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Yeah I just saw and said SORRY. TY nevertheless.Very embarassing for me... SHAME Heh, nothing to worry about. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Yeah I just saw and said SORRY. TY nevertheless.Very embarassing for me... SHAME Embarrassing is when you're an adolescent boy watching Charlie's Angels with your pants down and your mother walks in. That happened to a friend of mine. What? Oh. My friend wanted to say that Farah Fawcett was friggin' hot. Link to post Share on other sites
ActionFalko 0 Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 Embarrassing is when you're an adolescent boy watching Charlie's Angels with your pants down and your mother walks in. That happened to a friend of mine. What? Oh. My friend wanted to say that Farah Fawcett was friggin' hot. Link to post Share on other sites
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