An Atheist Scientist Turns To God

[fighter 4]

Haven't watched the news today, but if there was one that was stopped, good. I would suspect there was somebody in the area God wanted to protect- you know, one of his people you claim he can do nothing for. Derek, look at it this way. Do you really think this is the only disenfrachised guy with a gun? No. There are plenty, plenty more that just haven't quite hit that threshold yet, haven't quite pulled the trigger. Yet,God saw fit to let one do his thing. Satan said,"I want to push this guy this far, and this is what he is going to do", and God looked down, saw the deed, because as we know he can see all and knows all, and said,"O.K. Let it happen." What part of that do you not understand? Or are you saying what I am saying except that God allowed it because we treat the mentally ill shitty? If so, throw it in with the other reasons, I am just saying that God allowed it.

Ok this is how you are confusing the people who are reading. I will make this so simple there are only three options. Choping and changing is creating a god of gaps.1. The actions at VT are part of the price we have to pay for free will. For us to have this gift we have to accept that others free will sometimes conflicts with ours. if you want to punch me in the face so be it i have to accept that is part of the free will we have. God lets it happen because it wouldnt be free will otherwise. Love wouldnt be as magical if it wasnt for free will. It is why god lets us not believe in him because it isnt love without free will and you can denny him if you are free. 2. There is no reason (like reason 1 only for atheists, enjoy) 3. example : If i want to teach you a lesson. I will prepare the flow charts and chalk and blackboard, i will go out and buy these items as i need them for the lesson. Relating no. 3 back to the situation if he want to create the lesson he need to create the chalk, this tool will kill 32 people then himself in the need to provide the lesson. In doing so god has created something to be dammed for in hell. You cant chop out the free will and then insert the gods lesson. Why? you can't be "free" if you are part of a lesson. there is no middle ground. If there is a deeper lesson then it is planed completly so god created something that is designed to go to hell. This is the part where you are saying god allowed it , either he intend the lesson or there isnt one. "if god wanted to save one person in there he would of stoped it" He would of created it so it wouldnt of happend. If you believe in option 3 then there is no stopping, he created it so if it stops he created the situation so it would. he didnt just desided he didnt like the way how it was going. He created the way and it was always like that. Your example about your daughter ignores the fact that he created your daughters want for ice cream. If he didnt want the lesson to go ahead he wouldnt of created that need in her. He destined that and in doing so is damming the gunman.

[Loismustdie 0]

Ok this is how you are confusing the people who are reading. I will make this so simple there are only three options. Choping and changing is creating a god of gaps.1. The actions at VT are part of the price we have to pay for free will. For us to have this gift we have to accept that others free will sometimes conflicts with ours. if you want to punch me in the face so be it i have to accept that is part of the free will we have. God lets it happen because it wouldnt be free will otherwise. Love wouldnt be as magical if it wasnt for free will. It is why god lets us not believe in him because it isnt love without free will and you can denny him if you are free. 2. There is no reason (like reason 1 only for atheists, enjoy) 3. example : If i want to teach you a lesson. I will prepare the flow charts and chalk and blackboard, i will go out and buy these items as i need them for the lesson. Relating no. 3 back to the situation if he want to create the lesson he need to create the chalk, this tool will kill 32 people then himself in the need to provide the lesson. In doing so god has created something to be dammed for in hell. You cant chop out the free will and then insert the gods lesson. Why? you can't be "free" if you are part of a lesson. there is no middle ground. If there is a deeper lesson then it is planed completly so god created something that is designed to go to hell. This is the part where you are saying god allowed it , either he intend the lesson or there isnt one. "if god wanted to save one person in there he would of stoped it" He would of created it so it wouldnt of happend. If you believe in option 3 then there is no stopping, he created it so if it stops he created the situation so it would. he didnt just desided he didnt like the way how it was going. He created the way and it was always like that. Your example about your daughter ignores the fact that he created your daughters want for ice cream. If he didnt want the lesson to go ahead he wouldnt of created that need in her. He destined that and in doing so is damming the gunman.

Since when does free will become forced will? God can- and does- choose if he wants to let somebody do something or not. This isn't about free will, or destiny- maybe on soem level it is. I tend to agree with Derek on his point that the guy is the product of how ****ed up man his. We created this monster, now we have to reap what we sew. But- and I will always contend this- mans free will does not supersede Gods desire to protect his people. If he wanted to stop that situation he could have. He didn't want to. Apparently he saw no reason to even blink at it. So, we are left with 2 options. Either no one in that crowd was anyone he wanted to protect, so he didn't care enough to stop it, or Satan at this point has full control and God is just going to let the worlds sins consume itself. Incidentally, a person I talk to, that was there choice. I don't buy that. I think the world still has hope.

[Loismustdie 0]

FYPSo he will come back before the generation of his time ends (which has long since passed BTW) but also that he doesn't know when he will come back?Well he is either contradicting himself or he is stuck in traffic

Or, he really doen't know, and generation was reffering to the new breed of Christianity. Front to back- really?

[Flack_attack 0]

Lois, by your reasoning, you have personally killed thousands of people.

[Loismustdie 0]

Lois, by your reasoning, you have personally killed thousands of people.[/quote On some level, I could see how you could say that. Me, personally, I wish only the best for the world, but really, look around. What choice does God have? Wickedness prevails, man, everywhere. I know, for me, the message I take from this is this- well it's threefold. Number one- I think we have become desensitized. Even the "christians" on this site are just like, "It happens, God has nothing to do with anything"- seriously? Really? That's a christian perspective? What exactly do you all think God has planned- what, end of the world, and everybody has cake and ice cream? He's coming back for vengeance on them who know not God. Plain and simple. So, lesson number 2- know God. More. Alot more. I am a terrible example, and because of my sins if it all ended today, I would not join my daughter in heaven. That thought vexes me like no other- that kid, is everything. This can be rectified, but I got some work to do- hopefully, God allows me time. Lesson number three- help others. I am incredibly selfish, and even when I was at my best it was all about me, and not enough about others. At the very least, by my example my wife should have as god a shot as any to see what real christianity is all about. As it is her lack of conviction is one me. I have failed her until this point. Obviously, there are many that this incident will completely seem as nothing- nothing will change. They will lead the exact same life as before, they will acknowledge the dead but be blinded to the reasons fo the dead. Mainly, that our society is about sin, and nothing else, daily. It's onn their t.v., it's on their internet, in their bed, but most of all it is their head and hearts. What is God supposed to do? Wink? Or do as he promised he would? When does the vengeance begin? When is the breaking point? I don't know- you don't know.

[fighter 4]

Satan at this point has full control and God is just going to let the worlds sins consume itself

I know this is off point but does satan have free will. Interesting thought. ill post something else in a minute

[KramitDaToad 0]

Or, he really doen't know, and generation was reffering to the new breed of Christianity. Front to back- really?

Nice try, however the original text used the word genea which is also used repeated elsewhere throughout this and other books of the Bible.It's meaning is very distinctive as although you might succeed with English (and even that is a super stretch) there is no way you can shape the meaning of the word in its original form to fit what your fanciful interpretation requires.It also doesn't address Matthews other verse Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdomFront to back. Really.Furthermore you claim that Christ did not know when the last soul to be saved would be. That obviously implies that he cannot see the 'faith' of future people, so he would only be sure that people who were following him at the time (which was a small handful) would ever belong to this new 'breed'. Therefore if we were even to accept your swing and a miss of an explanaition, it again points back to him claiming his return within the lifetime of people alive there and then.

[fighter 4]

But- and I will always contend this- mans free will does not supersede Gods desire to protect his people. If he wanted to stop that situation he could have. He didn't want to. Apparently he saw no reason to even blink at it.

We were feed to the lions back in the day. Can i get some bible verses about this protection. Also it feels like something is fundamentally wrong about that. Too many contradictions eg a child getting raped, abortions. I mean if something as pure as a child doesnt get the protection then how can anyone?

[Loismustdie 0]

We were feed to the lions back in the day. Can i get some bible verses about this protection. Also it feels like something is fundamentally wrong about that. Too many contradictions eg a child getting raped, abortions. I mean if something as pure as a child doesnt get the protection then how can anyone?

Maybe a rape now was better then what God saw in the future for the child? I think it maybe a little of both sometimes. I don't know of any christians children who have been raped. God would not make a christian go through that. The thing is, with my reasoning I am doing the world a favor, because what God says is,"Time and chance happens to them all." Sadly, I have to go to work, but I will post some scriptures on Gods protection later tonight.

[Loismustdie 0]

Nice try, however the original text used the word genea which is also used repeated elsewhere throughout this and other books of the Bible.It's meaning is very distinctive as although you might succeed with English (and even that is a super stretch) there is no way you can shape the meaning of the word in its original form to fit what your fanciful interpretation requires.It also doesn't address Matthews other verse Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdomFront to back. Really.Furthermore you claim that Christ did not know when the last soul to be saved would be. That obviously implies that he cannot see the 'faith' of future people, so he would only be sure that people who were following him at the time (which was a small handful) would ever belong to this new 'breed'. Therefore if we were even to accept your swing and a miss of an explanaition, it again points back to him claiming his return within the lifetime of people alive there and then.

Get to this later.

[SilentSnow 1]

Maybe a rape now was better then what God saw in the future for the child? I think it maybe a little of both sometimes. I don't know of any christians children who have been raped. God would not make a christian go through that. The thing is, with my reasoning I am doing the world a favor, because what God says is,"Time and chance happens to them all." Sadly, I have to go to work, but I will post some scriptures on Gods protection later tonight.

You have got to be kidding us. Just when I thought you couldnt come up with anything crazier, you say something like this. Are you seriously saying that no christian child has ever been raped?I dont even want to speculate on what you mean by your first sentence.

[fighter 4]

Maybe a rape now was better then what God saw in the future for the child? I think it maybe a little of both sometimes. I don't know of any christians children who have been raped. God would not make a christian go through that. The thing is, with my reasoning I am doing the world a favor, because what God says is,"Time and chance happens to them all." Sadly, I have to go to work, but I will post some scriptures on Gods protection later tonight.

*stuned silence* i am going to wait untill you come back from work and watch you perform the miracle of rationalising this. Also you missed abortions but after your rape explaination i dont know if i want to hear it.

[Loismustdie 0]

You have got to be kidding us. Just when I thought you couldnt come up with anything crazier, you say something like this. Are you seriously saying that no christian child has ever been raped?I dont even want to speculate on what you mean by your first sentence.

I am saying that of every christian child that I have known, none have been raped. None that I have known, and I don't believe that God would make a striveing christian have to deal with that kind of pain. I know for me, personally, I started having seizures as a teen and I know why- I know exactly what lessons God was trying to teach me, and my mom as well. I was used by God to wake my mom up and force her to see some things. God will use what he can to get to a christian if they need a "spanking." This includes children, but I don't see him doing that to a child of his own volition. I just can't see him going that far to a true christians child. As far as the first sentence, how could you not get that? Lets say a child is kidnapped and murdered- is it Satan running wild? I would say so. Or, in the case of say, a child whos parents abuse him or her, maybe a quick death is actually better because of what could have been. I would not want to be the one who called that, but I often wonder if Gods plan for some children is to just go to heaven, and not have to deal with soemthing terrible in the future. Better to bring them to heaven now.

[fighter 4]

God will use what he can to get to a christian if they need a "spanking." This includes children, but I don't see him doing that to a child of his own volition. I just can't see him going that far to a true christians child.

So who did all the priests of the priest scandals rape?? i guess you answer will be wrong religion. So god offers protection to its people and "spankings" to innocent bystanders. At what point can you stop being a tool for punishment to those near you. How close do you have to be to a "bad" people before you are free game for teaching him. I have a good friend who is an athiest should i be worried about getting raped because of his non belief. How does this not leave a bad taste in your mouth ??

[Loismustdie 0]

So who did all the priests of the priest scandals rape?? i guess you answer will be wrong religion. So god offers protection to its people and "spankings" to innocent bystanders. At what point can you stop being a tool for punishment to those near you. How close do you have to be to a "bad" people before you are free game for teaching him. I have a good friend who is an athiest should i be worried about getting raped because of his non belief. How does this not leave a bad taste in your mouth ??

Who says the bystanders are innocent? Also, wrong religion, lol. Why would God punish you because of your friend, unless that friend was actually affecting you? Meaning, his ways were becoming yours. Also, the lessons aren't for the unbelievers- do you see any unbelievers on this site actually willing to give God credit for anything? The lessons are for the believer, so that he/she can rememeber what reality is- I know for me, soemtimes I get caught up in this life and I start to distance myself from what is at hand, in that I start believing I have time, when one thing that is paramount in a christians life is operating under the assumption that you don't have time. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth, but whos fault is it? Gods? He never told man to do whatever he wanted, quite the opposite. He has been very clear what he wants and what his intentions are if you decide to not do it. Everybody has fair warning, at least anybody that wants it. I personally would rather believe that he is behind everything, and that there is a reason that I cannot always see, because otherwise he just doesn't care. Otherwise it is ONLY Satans realm and just chaos. I don't believe that. I see hope everywhere, still, everyday, in my dealings with people. Some are affected, the way they should be, believer and unbeliever. That tells me that it was not for nothing, that maybe through this tragedy, a soul or 2 will be saved, and it won't just be a bunch of meaningless arguments about gun control.

[jmkiser 0]

crazy Christian is crazy

[Loismustdie 0]

crazy Christian is crazy

Real deep. I am in awe.

[Zeatrix 0]

Maybe a rape now was better then what God saw in the future for the child? I think it maybe a little of both sometimes. I don't know of any christians children who have been raped. God would not make a christian go through that. The thing is, with my reasoning I am doing the world a favor, because what God says is,"Time and chance happens to them all." Sadly, I have to go to work, but I will post some scriptures on Gods protection later tonight.

Now that is THE most sickening and disturbing post I have ever seen on this forum. That is also why I find it very hard to believe that Christianity has gotten it right. If there is a God like that I wouldn't want to be praying to it.

[Loismustdie 0]

Now that is THE most sickening and disturbing post I have ever seen on this forum. That is also why I find it very hard to believe that Christianity has gotten it right. If there is a God like that I wouldn't want to be praying to it.

Think, and then read what I said later. Maybe you will catch up,maybe you won't. I won't keep my fingers crossed.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Maybe a rape now was better then what God saw in the future for the child? I think it maybe a little of both sometimes. I don't know of any christians children who have been raped. God would not make a christian go through that.

This is kooky.

[Loismustdie 0]

This is kooky.

You guys are not being all that quick. First off, it was a question- did anybody see the question mark? I posed a question. Now, the thinking behind this is this- a child is raped and murdered. What if, God looked in the future, saw that this child was currently being molested by her dad, it would continue to happen for 6 years, she would turn to drugs, on and on and on, God sees a moment in time when this rape and murder will occur, and instead of stepping in says, "Alright, this is what Satan ahs planned through his chaos, but that is o.k., because this is a child, and it works out for her, because she gets to go to heaven and won't remember what happened." Satan is allowed to run wild on earth, but sometimes through his chaos there is light. Sometimes. On the surface, kooky, yes, but if you think it through, not so kooky. Would you be willing to go through something horrible, if you knew when it was over you would spend forever in bliss? Of course you would.

[Zeatrix 0]

This is still kooky and exactly why I will never be able to have faith.

[KramitDaToad 0]

Nice try, however the original text used the word genea which is also used repeated elsewhere throughout this and other books of the Bible.It's meaning is very distinctive as although you might succeed with English (and even that is a super stretch) there is no way you can shape the meaning of the word in its original form to fit what your fanciful interpretation requires.It also doesn't address Matthews other verse Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdomFront to back. Really.Furthermore you claim that Christ did not know when the last soul to be saved would be. That obviously implies that he cannot see the 'faith' of future people, so he would only be sure that people who were following him at the time (which was a small handful) would ever belong to this new 'breed'. Therefore if we were even to accept your swing and a miss of an explanaition, it again points back to him claiming his return within the lifetime of people alive there and then.

Get to this later.

It's later

[PlayingPossum 0]

Maybe a rape now was better then what God saw in the future for the child? I think it maybe a little of both sometimes. I don't know of any christians children who have been raped. God would not make a christian go through that. The thing is, with my reasoning I am doing the world a favor, because what God says is,"Time and chance happens to them all." Sadly, I have to go to work, but I will post some scriptures on Gods protection later tonight.

That is some sick ****. Let's examine why-What if I killled a child I knew was being abused and raped? I knew it would continue if someone didn't do something about it, so I killed the child who would then get to spend eternity in Heaven with God. I'd go to jail and rightly so. It's expected that I would try to help the child, not end the child's life, and again, rightly so!God is omnipotent and all-powerful, God could stop this torture and rape VERY easily, if the Christian doctrine is to be believed. But he may not have, in this scenario, he killed the child. Sound thought processes LMD. You are one f$%#ed up poobah. I can only imagine the horror of being you.

[Rodney21a 1]

"RELIGION IS BULLSHIT!!!!"Hard to argue this philosophy. Click Here.