Should Barry Bonds Be Entered Into The Hall Of Fame?

[keith crime 8]

show me the rule banning steroids show me that they tested for them cocaine is illegal - should they be tossed

[KowboyKoop 0]

show me the rule banning steroids show me that they tested for them cocaine is illegal - should they be tossed

Lol....because I have access to all MLB policy and documentation so easily. Steroids have been illegal in this country since the '70s. You can find that all over the internet I am sure. Steroids were banned by baseball, but no, they were not enforced. I have never said otherwise. Just because an illegal act is not "enforced" doesn't make it alright to do it. Yes, the owners have to be blamed for their share of this too, I know that. Also, keep in mind that I am NOT saying that Bonds should be withheld from the HoF. He should be in.Also...about your cocaine reference.....does cocaine ENHANCE YOUR PERFORMANCE IN BASEBALL AND THUS GIVE YOU AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE??? ouch...ONCE AGAIN..you bring up some irrelevant comparison that is of no use. That's like saying that "Oh, well that player murdered eight people..but you can't keep that guy out of the Hall of Fame unless you keep that other player out who has an unpaid traffic ticket." Different crimes.....different situations.

[keith crime 8]

Well your argument was that Steroids were illegal As to them being performance enhancing thats a different issue - same with greenies - if baseball had no rule against it - and tacitly encouraged it - Mac was a hero in 1998 - Can you imagine how many NFL players do roids and they are supposedly illegal there tooNot to mention in college where the kids arent even paid - remember tony mandarichIf you are the last guy to do roids you aren't gaining an unfair advantage - you are stopping the others from gaining it on you - and that's the situation that the owners tacitly encouragedever see North Dallas Forty - gonna take the needle for the team Nick?We are all guilty - we pay money for the homers - everyone knew Bonds was on Steroids - did we protest - did we stop watching or did we call our friends and say - hey Barry is up turn on the TV

[KowboyKoop 0]

Well your argument was that Steroids were illegal As to them being performance enhancing thats a different issue - same with greenies - if baseball had no rule against it - and tacitly encouraged it - Mac was a hero in 1998 - Can you imagine how many NFL players do roids and they are supposedly illegal there tooNot to mention in college where the kids arent even paid - remember tony mandarichIf you are the last guy to do roids you aren't gaining an unfair advantage - you are stopping the others from gaining it on you - and that's the situation that the owners tacitly encouragedever see North Dallas Forty - gonna take the needle for the team Nick?We are all guilty - we pay money for the homers - everyone knew Bonds was on Steroids - did we protest - did we stop watching or did we call our friends and say - hey Barry is up turn on the TV

What are you even talking about!?!?! Steroids have been illegal in baseball and our ENTIRE COUNTRY for a long time. He took them and that is cheating and that should be recognized. THAT IS IT!!!! No, he is not the ONLY person who cheated in the history of sports...we know that...but it has been proven that he cheated....so it should be recognized. Noone is saying Bonds is the only person to blame. Noone is saying this is 100 percent Bonds fault and that everyone else is blameless. Noone is saying that all sports are 100 percent pure and that Bonds is the only dirty player of all time. Quite frankly...I don't even know what you are trying to argue..or are trying to argue against. You keep bringing up NFL players doing roids and how all the fans are guilty for "paying for homeruns." WTF!!?!?! What are fans supposed to do, automatically ASSUME that every homerun is because of steriods!?!? Innocent until proven guilty. That is it. Every player is assumed clean until it is PROVEN they used steriods...so to say that the fans are "wrong" for thinking that way is just stupid. Bonds was PROVEN to have used steriods, so now he must face the consequences. If others are PROVEN, then they will fare the same...just look at Palmeiro. He was PROVEN, and now he has been essentially forced into retirement. Sosa with the corked bat..he ain't in the league anymore. McGwire was asked at the hearing whether he used steriods, and he refused to say no, and look at him, his reputation has been tarnished so much that he couldn't even go back to St. Louis for the closing of Busch Stadiums ceremonies. It ain't just Bonds that people are accusing of cheating..he's just the one that is the most prominent right now. Get over it. He cheated. He was wrong. It is going to be recognized forever and it will tarnish his career forever.Edit: And for the record, I was not one of those fans who had to or wanted to watch all of Bonds at-bats..and same with McGwire and Sosa in '98. I don't even care that much about most records such as these b/c it is impossible to compare different times in baseball and such....and now that we know Bonds was on the juice when he hit 73, that record really means nothing to me whatsoever. It isn't Bond's record, and I really don't care what the record ever will be...

[keith crime 8]

Koop show me the rule banning steroids in baseball prior to last year and anyone tested for use or suspended for use - they basically had no steroid policy - their head was in the ground

[KowboyKoop 0]

Koop show me the rule banning steroids in baseball prior to last year and anyone tested for use or suspended for use - they basically had no steroid policy - their head was in the ground

Yes, I know they had no official steroid testing policy. However, steroids were banned from baseball and, more importantly, THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. Are you saying that the laws of the country don't apply to Major League Baseball?? Show me where in a MLB handbook or document where it says that a MLB team Owner can't pull out a chainsaw and cut the hands off of all the opposing team's players. Until you can show me that, I guess you can do that with no consequence in baseball, right?? right??Yes, they didn't test for steroids or enforce steroids being illegal in baseball hardly at all, and the Owners/commissioner and whoever else get blame for that. I have never said otherwise. But that doesn't mean Bonds is totally blameless.

[timwakefield 69]

Hey guys, I've been away awhile, but I'm gonna give my 2 cents here. I don't know how many seasons Bonds allegedly used steroids for, but it's at least 4 or 5, probably a lot more. Now imagine if, near the end of his career, it had come out that Mickey Mantle had been using a corked bat EVERY DAY during his 5 best seasons. Do you think he would have made the hall? Hell no. Neither should Bonds.

[LAS22 0]

Has he ever tested positive by MLB? If he hasn't then it is just speculation as to if he did or didn't. Do I think he used...I do, but my opinion doesn't count it is what the tests say.There are a lot of people of questional character in the HOF. Ty Cobb was one of the worst guys around.Until there is some proof that he cheated, I think he is in.

[Hobbes 1]

Has he ever tested positive by MLB? If he hasn't then it is just speculation as to if he did or didn't. Do I think he used...I do, but my opinion doesn't count it is what the tests say.There are a lot of people of questional character in the HOF. Ty Cobb was one of the worst guys around.Until there is some proof that he cheated, I think he is in.

He has not tested positive in a MLB drug test, so I don't think he can be suspended. However, he admitted that he used the "Cream" and the "Clear" which are steroids. He just said he didn't know what they were. But if you've read the SI excerpt from the book, it's a very damning case that he knew exactly what he was doing.Also, he started taking steroids in the offseason between the 1998 and 1999 seasons.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Has he ever tested positive by MLB? If he hasn't then it is just speculation as to if he did or didn't. Do I think he used...I do, but my opinion doesn't count it is what the tests say.There are a lot of people of questional character in the HOF. Ty Cobb was one of the worst guys around.Until there is some proof that he cheated, I think he is in.

Wow...you aren't very updated on this situation, are you? He did it, it is proven. He admitted it. It is proven. These things are documented. There is a TON of VERY damning evidence....Victor Conte wasn't investigated so much and put in jail for jaywalking....

[canateian 0]

I have been as anti bonds an anyone the last coupel years, but if he dosnt make the hall of fame you would basically have to ban everyone from the mid 90's to now from it also. Although I am not against that I doubt it should happen so yes he should be in the hall.

[timwakefield 69]

I have been as anti bonds an anyone the last coupel years, but if he dosnt make the hall of fame you would basically have to ban everyone from the mid 90's to now from it also. Although I am not against that I doubt it should happen so yes he should be in the hall.

I think that all of the big sluggers from that era will have a very difficult time getting in......Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire.....everybody knows that guys like Griffey are clean, and he will probably make it first ballot. I would be the opposite of upset if McGwire and Bonds never made it.

[Hobbes 1]

everybody knows that guys like Griffey are clean, and he will probably make it first ballot.

Why does everyone know this?

[timwakefield 69]

Why does everyone know this?

Cincinnati Enquirer"I never heard even a second of doubt about him," said Peter Gammons of ESPN. "With other guys you hear, 'Oh we know he's on them.' With (Griffey) there's no chance."

[canateian 0]

Cincinnati Enquirer"I never heard even a second of doubt about him," said Peter Gammons of ESPN. "With other guys you hear, 'Oh we know he's on them.' With (Griffey) there's no chance."

I dont agree, hes got wiry muscle and those nagging injuries are a little suspicious

[keith crime 8]

Koop stop saying Barry admitted to willingly taking steroids because he didn'tStop saying it was proven because it wasn't a book doesn't equal provenAnd you're argument about legality applies to all illegal drugs - if you took out all hall of famers who broke laws - it would be a lot smaller

[KowboyKoop 0]

Koop stop saying Barry admitted to willingly taking steroids because he didn'tStop saying it was proven because it wasn't a book doesn't equal provenAnd you're argument about legality applies to all illegal drugs - if you took out all hall of famers who broke laws - it would be a lot smaller

Quit twisting words. ALLLLL I have been saying is that Bonds ADMITTED TO TAKING STEROIDS to the jury. THAT IS A FACT!! He denied KNOWING they were steroids at the time, and whether he did or not is a COMPLETELY different issue. It is of my opinion that he "willingly" took them b/c he is supposedly a freak about working out and what he puts in his body..so I'd guess that he knew..but it doesn't matter whether he "willingly" or "mistakenly" took them or whatever.....he admitted that they were given to him, and he admitted to taking them. THAT IS IT!!! I never said it was only proven in a book...that is ONE more piece of evidence. It is ONE piece of sh*t thrown onto a gigantic pile of sh*t. You KNOW I am right in what I am saying..but you just keep on bringing up other irrelevant stuff and not addressing exactly what I am saying. I don't care that much about his denial of "knowing" they were steroids..bottom line is..HE ADMITTED TO TAKING STEROIDS. Whether he "knew" at the time is irrelevant. He took them and it should be recognized. THAT IS IT!!! You are acting like I am saying he should be banned from baseball and stuff.....you don't seem to understand (which at this point is NOT a shock....) that I have already plainly stated that he SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame and can NOT be suspended right now. All I said is that it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he TOOK STEROIDS, and thus, it should be recognized and all his homerun records are tarnished. I never said he was the only dirty player in the game..even though you keep accusing me of that. I never said he should be suspended for baseball, even though you act like I am, and I never said he shouldn't get in the HOF, even though you act like I am.I seriously think you need to actually start reading and comprehending my posts.....because you are WAYYYYYYYYYY off in understanding what I am saying. I am saying his use of steroids should simply be recognized..and you respond by asking me to prove that every other player in the history of the game is clean. Flat out doesn't make sense.....

[BNH77 0]

Bonds belongs in the HOF, it isnt his fault Baseball had no policy towards steroids. He was also a great player when he wasnt on Steroids, unlike McGwire, Sosa ect.

[keith crime 8]

Koop you are the one using semantics - admitting to knowingly taking steroids and admitting to unknowingly taking steroids are a huge difference one that does not merit you to continuously type HE ADMITTED TO TAKING STEROIDS

[KowboyKoop 0]

Koop you are the one using semantics - admitting to knowingly taking steroids and admitting to unknowingly taking steroids are a huge difference one that does not merit you to continuously type HE ADMITTED TO TAKING STEROIDS

I KNOW THEY ARE DIFFERENT ISSUES. ALL I HAVE MAINTAINED IS THAT HE TOOK THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT!!!!!!! I HAVE NEVER CALLED HIM THE BIGGEST CHEATER/VILLIAN IN SPORTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!! HE TOOK STEROIDS, IT IS PROVEN. HE ADMITTED IT!!!! WHETHER HE "KNEW' OR NOT IS A DIFFERENT ISSUE. I HAVE SAID THAT REPEATEDLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE NOT SAID THAT IT IS 100 PERCENT HIS FAULT!!!!!!!!! WHAT MORE DO I HAVE TO DO TO SHOW YOU THAT ALLLLLLLL I AM SAYING IS THAT HE TOOK THEM AND IT SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED. THAT IS IT!!!!!!! BOTTOM LINE. HE TOOK THEM. IT IS A FACT. PROVEN. THUS, IT SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED. DID HE 'KNOWINGLY' TAKE THEM?? I THINK SO, BUT THERE IS NO WAY FOR ME TO PROVE THAT RIGHT NOW...NOT UNTIL I READ THE BOOK AND SEE WHAT PROOF THERE IS. BUT WE DO KNOW THAT HE TOOK THEM. BONDS = TOOK STEROIDS.FACT. PROVEN.HE SAID HE TOOK THEM.ADMITTED IT. FACT.PROVEN. HE TOLD A JURY THAT HE TOOK THE CREAM AND THE CLEARTHE CREAM IS A STEROID. THE CLEAR IS A STEROID. CONCLUSION: BARRY BONDS TOOK STEROIDS. THAT'S IT. UNDENIABLE. YOU KNOW IT IS A FACT. GET OVER IT.Edit: and no, I am not yelling..I am just trying to find a way for you to actually see what I am writing.

[keith crime 8]

well clearly someone needs decaf and clearly you have been acting like admitting to taking steroids unwillingly impeaches his character which clearly it does notand no **** he took steroidsoj killed nicole too

[KowboyKoop 0]

well clearly someone needs decaf and clearly you have been acting like admitting to taking steroids unwillingly impeaches his character which clearly it does notand no **** he took steroids oj killed nicole too

Then what the f*ck are you arguing with me about. This has been the ONLY THING I have said. He took steroids..and it should be recognized. That is IT. This entire time you have been arguing with me over something that I have not said, apparently. Maybe you should learn to read or something??? He took them, it is proven. It should be recognized. Have I said he should not be in the HOF?? Have I said he should be banned from baseball?? Have I said he was the worst person in the world??? Have I said he is the only dirty player in the history of the game?? Have I SAID any of that?!?! No. So......what are you arguing with me about!?! You tell me. I could care less about whether his "character has been impeached."

[timwakefield 69]

Bonds belongs in the HOF, it isnt his fault Baseball had no policy towards steroids. He was also a great player when he wasnt on Steroids, unlike McGwire, Sosa ect.

Baseball did have a policy banning steroids, they just didn't have testing or punishment. But do you really think that players who were using thought it was allowed? I mean, it's banned in all serious sporting events all over the world.....you think he said...'Oh yeah I know they kick dudes out of the Olympics for it, but it's not against the rules in baseball.' That's ridiculous. It's cheating and everybody knows it. And Barry admitted to it. If you actually believe that he didn't know he was taking them, then you are extemely gullible. I used this analogy before: say Mickey Mantle had been caught using a corked bat EVERY DAY during his 5 best seasons. Even if half the leauge was also using corked bats, and pitchers were throwing spitballs, he would not make the HOF. Neither would anybody else using a corked bat, and neither should any player who used steroids for extended periods. Also, McGwire hit 49 hrs his rookie season......I'm not sure when he supposedly started using.

[princeof56k 0]

Are we actually sure that baseball had a banned substance list in the prior to a couple years ago? Not trying to start trouble here, but I was under the impression is didnt exist, and if it did, it was completely inadequate.This is extremely imortant because in other sports they specifically state which drugs can NOT be used. You cant just say "ban all performance enhancing drugs." It's too general and there's too many ways to interpet it. You have to be specific.I remember when McGwire took Andro. He freely admitted it since it was perfectly legal in the US. However almost any other respectable sport had banned the stuff. McGwire broke no baseball rules but was clearly using a performance enhancer. I cant remember if baseball banned the stuff shortly after that or not. I dont think they did but its probably banned now (players union and all).So its entirely possible that Bonds actually didnt break any baseball rules since he probably didnt take anything that was banned by baseball.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Are we actually sure that baseball had a banned substance list in the prior to a couple years ago? Not trying to start trouble here, but I was under the impression is didnt exist, and if it did, it was completely inadequate.This is extremely imortant because in other sports they specifically state which drugs can NOT be used. You cant just say "ban all performance enhancing drugs." It's too general and there's too many ways to interpet it. You have to be specific.I remember when McGwire took Andro. He freely admitted it since it was perfectly legal in the US. However almost any other respectable sport had banned the stuff. McGwire broke no baseball rules but was clearly using a performance enhancer. I cant remember if baseball banned the stuff shortly after that or not. I dont think they did but its probably banned now (players union and all).So its entirely possible that Bonds actually didnt break any baseball rules since he probably didnt take anything that was banned by baseball.

Well..since the 1970s (I believe), steroids have been flat out illegal in the entire country....so I think it is safe to say that they were banned from baseball. MLB rules must follow U.S. rules.... Steroids have always been banned from baseball ever since they came about. Andro is a lot different than steroids...Andro (from what I have heard and know) was just something which helped the body recover quicker to prevent injury. It is now on the banned list...but it isn't NEARLY as much as a performance enhancer as steroids. Steroids have always been banned in sports. No, the "policy" was hardly enforced at the time, but that doesn't make using them right.