2012 Elections

[JustDoIt 10]

I like everything you say here. I don't live near any Mormons, but I understand they are generally a kind, charitable group. They, generally, use their religious beliefs as a basis for actions that most of us would consider good. And I also agree that encouraging a 'good' society would be an excellent way for Romney (or any other Mormon) to fulfill his Church's requirements.This kind of falls apart in two ways:- Romney (and any other Mormon in politics) does plenty of things that would not really be considered generally good. Mostly because it's impossible, since high-level politicians have to decide on things like abortion, which won't be generally seen as good by a majority of people no matter what he does. So it falls down to personal politics and beliefs, which we can assume are in line with the Church's. Logically then, a strong religious figure in a political role will make decisions based on religious beliefs.- Everything you said applies to Muslims. I promise, even though the media and your neighbours tell you all brown people are terrorists. I promise that is true. There are violent Muslims too, who say they are acting in the name of their Quran, and the media will tell you that is because the Quran says to kill all infidels or some shit. Well, the Mormon Bible says plenty of awful things too if people followed them precisely, but most Mormons do not and act well.You're hilariously wrong. Christians are, by an incredibly significant margin, the most violent group in history. It's only because Christians try to pretend that those who do violent things while identifying as Christians are not 'really' Christians because...well they did bad things. Whereas any (communist or otherwise) regime without a publicly-stated belief is assumed to be atheist. Even though, of course, atheism is not equal to not being religious, and that most of these situations involved atheism only to avoid any power high than the regimes, rather than basing their murders on atheist beliefs and the eradication of non-atheists.Hitler: Christian.

- Romney (and any other Mormon in politics) does plenty of things that would not really be considered generally good. Mostly because it's impossible, since high-level politicians have to decide on things like abortion, which won't be generally seen as good by a majority of people no matter what he does. So it falls down to personal politics and beliefs, which we can assume are in line with the Church's. Logically then, a strong religious figure in a political role will make decisions based on religious beliefs.Your correct, a lot of people vote special interest only. It is sad these people don't wade through the mud and figure out what the candidates are really all about. I consider these votes’ ignorant votesIf Romney is elected I hope he concentrates on his strength’s the economy. It is my hope that the first thing he does is send a strong message and raids Wall Street and arrest about 300 of them and lead them out in hand cuffs. Probably will not happen, but I think he will shock everyone and make a strong effort to deal with Corporate Cronyism.I guarantee if he were President, Goldman Sachs and other companies would not have received dollar for dollar settlements on AIG.- Everything you said applies to Muslims. I promise, even though the media and your neighbours tell you all brown people are terrorists. I promise that is true. There are violent Muslims too, who say they are acting in the name of their Quran, and the media will tell you that is because the Quran says to kill all infidels or some shit. Well, the Mormon Bible says plenty of awful things too if people followed them precisely, but most Mormons do not and act well.You are correct. I have done work in the Middle East and met a lot of super people. It is IGNORANT for any one to say all Muslims are dangerous and bad people. But it would also be IGNORANT not to acknowledge and deal with some very dangerous fringe groups hiding behind the Koran. And yes, their has been and are Fruitcakes and dangerous fringe groups that have spun off of the Mormon Church. And yes, I do know what’s called a Jack Mormon (bad person).Last Point. I think you are frustrated by the NOISE and RHETERIC as I am. As I pointed out the other day that Rep. Bachmann's letter (along with other letters sent by other Congressman) addressing a legitimate concern was that was totally obscured by NOISE and RHETERIC. Instead of addressing a legitimate concern the NOISE and RHETERIC reached a level as you pointed out where the Muslims were all labeled as bad people. We need to get back to addressing issues and toning down the RHETERIC.

[mrdannyg 274]

- Romney (and any other Mormon in politics) does plenty of things that would not really be considered generally good. Mostly because it's impossible, since high-level politicians have to decide on things like abortion, which won't be generally seen as good by a majority of people no matter what he does. So it falls down to personal politics and beliefs, which we can assume are in line with the Church's. Logically then, a strong religious figure in a political role will make decisions based on religious beliefs.Your correct, a lot of people vote special interest only. It is sad these people don't wade through the mud and figure out what the candidates are really all about. I consider these votes’ ignorant votesIf Romney is elected I hope he concentrates on his strength’s the economy. It is my hope that the first thing he does is send a strong message and raids Wall Street and arrest about 300 of them and lead them out in hand cuffs. Probably will not happen, but I think he will shock everyone and make a strong effort to deal with Corporate Cronyism.I guarantee if he were President, Goldman Sachs and other companies would not have received dollar for dollar settlements on AIG.- Everything you said applies to Muslims. I promise, even though the media and your neighbours tell you all brown people are terrorists. I promise that is true. There are violent Muslims too, who say they are acting in the name of their Quran, and the media will tell you that is because the Quran says to kill all infidels or some shit. Well, the Mormon Bible says plenty of awful things too if people followed them precisely, but most Mormons do not and act well.You are correct. I have done work in the Middle East and met a lot of super people. It is IGNORANT for any one to say all Muslims are dangerous and bad people. But it would also be IGNORANT not to acknowledge and deal with some very dangerous fringe groups hiding behind the Koran. And yes, their has been and are Fruitcakes and dangerous fringe groups that have spun off of the Mormon Church. And yes, I do know what’s called a Jack Mormon (bad person).Last Point. I think you are frustrated by the NOISE and RHETERIC as I am. As I pointed out the other day that Rep. Bachmann's letter (along with other letters sent by other Congressman) addressing a legitimate concern was that was totally obscured by NOISE and RHETERIC. Instead of addressing a legitimate concern the NOISE and RHETERIC reached a level as you pointed out where the Muslims were all labeled as bad people. We need to get back to addressing issues and toning down the RHETERIC.

Despite the formatting, one of my favourite posts by you. Funny to see how a logical person can use very logical underpinnings to spin so far off sometimes.Anyway, if you're voting Romney because you want to see less corporate cronyism and less corporations being bailed out, I think you need to remember that every party attacks every unpopular thing the last person did, even if it is the same thing they would've done in the same scenario. Ignoring the NOISE AND RHETORIC, I can't imagine a scenario where the large corporations don't come out at least as well, if not much better off, if a Rep had been President in the last 4 years.

[Balloon guy 158]

Despite the formatting, one of my favourite posts by you. Funny to see how a logical person can use very logical underpinnings to spin so far off sometimes.Anyway, if you're voting Romney because you want to see less corporate cronyism and less corporations being bailed out, I think you need to remember that every party attacks every unpopular thing the last person did, even if it is the same thing they would've done in the same scenario. Ignoring the NOISE AND RHETORIC, I can't imagine a scenario where the large corporations don't come out at least as well, if not much better off, if a Rep had been President in the last 4 years.

Reality ruins your postIn a move that serves as a capstone to Rep. Ron Paul’s colorful career, the House on Wednesday voted to have Congress‘ chief investigators conduct a full audit of the Federal Reserve’s shrouded decision-making process.The overwhelming 327-98 vote sends the measure to the Senate, where Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, at one time expressed support for an audit — though he reportedly has changed his mind.Opposition in Congress came chiefly from Democratic leaders, who said they doubt the bill ever becomes law — but worried about sending a signal to financial markets that lawmakers want to intervene in financial affairs.“It seems to me what we’re talking about is taking some fake punches at the Federal Reserve but not doing anything serious,” said Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee.Every top Democratic leader voted against the bill, including Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California and Whip Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland, along with 95 other Democrats and one Republican, Rep. Robert L. Turner of New York.

[mrdannyg 274]

Reality ruins your postIn a move that serves as a capstone to Rep. Ron Paul’s colorful career, the House on Wednesday voted to have Congress‘ chief investigators conduct a full audit of the Federal Reserve’s shrouded decision-making process.The overwhelming 327-98 vote sends the measure to the Senate, where Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, at one time expressed support for an audit — though he reportedly has changed his mind.Opposition in Congress came chiefly from Democratic leaders, who said they doubt the bill ever becomes law — but worried about sending a signal to financial markets that lawmakers want to intervene in financial affairs.“It seems to me what we’re talking about is taking some fake punches at the Federal Reserve but not doing anything serious,” said Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee.Every top Democratic leader voted against the bill, including Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California and Whip Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland, along with 95 other Democrats and one Republican, Rep. Robert L. Turner of New York.

Wait...so one party wants to audit the actions of another party? You're right, that completely disproves my point that each party will contend the other's actions, even if a realistic person would acknowledge that they would've done similar or worse if given the opportunity. Or, it is completely consistent with my point. But, I guess you had to get your quota of half-dozen Conservative articles posted today, and couldn't be bothered to find a relevant one.

[Balloon guy 158]

Wait...so one party wants to audit the actions of another party? You're right, that completely disproves my point that each party will contend the other's actions, even if a realistic person would acknowledge that they would've done similar or worse if given the opportunity. Or, it is completely consistent with my point. But, I guess you had to get your quota of half-dozen Conservative articles posted today, and couldn't be bothered to find a relevant one.

The Federal Reserve isn't political....

[FCP Bob 1,323]

The Federal Reserve isn't political....

That's what the House GOPers are trying to make it.

[Balloon guy 158]

That's what the House GOPers are trying to make it.

By forcing them to submit to an audit?I guess giving a non-elected board control of the countries fiscal policies should be done without oversight?

[timwakefield 69]

Well, I knew one person who was very much in support of evolution, used it to guide his national policy of evolved people and the need to remove the undesirable genes from the gene pool.He claimed to be one thing, but his actions were decidedly Darwinian Evolutionist...

I will say again that you're literally trying to agree with Hitler. It's possibly the single most obtuse argument against evolution that anyone ever makes, which is saying a mountain.Multiple choice question:Hitler was...A] An insane genocidal dictator who used any and all false excuses to justify and garner support for his campaign of genocide.B] A studious and respected scientist knowledgeable in the field of evolutionary biology.I shouldn't even bother responding to your Hitler garbage because I honestly hope that you're trolling, and it's hard to believe that you aren't.

Now I know you want to say that since some of these people walked physically into a church once or twice in their life that you get to attribute their actions solely into the 'religious side of the equation...but the rest of the world acknowledges that they weren't.

The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavour to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today. - Adolf Hitler, June 26, 1934My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. .. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. - Adolf Hitler, April 12, 1922We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out. - Adolf Hitler, October 24, 1933National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. - Adolf Hitler, August 26, 1934The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life. - Adolf Hitler, February 1, 1933

[JustDoIt 10]

Despite the formatting, one of my favourite posts by you. Funny to see how a logical person can use very logical underpinnings to spin so far off sometimes.Anyway, if you're voting Romney because you want to see less corporate cronyism and less corporations being bailed out, I think you need to remember that every party attacks every unpopular thing the last person did, even if it is the same thing they would've done in the same scenario. Ignoring the NOISE AND RHETORIC, I can't imagine a scenario where the large corporations don't come out at least as well, if not much better off, if a Rep had been President in the last 4 years.

That is a point I can not argue with. There are people in both parties that want to address Corporate Cronyism and it is my hope we will add numbers to that this election and finally have enough votes to actually do something about it. I can hope.

[Balloon guy 158]

The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavour to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today. - Adolf Hitler, June 26, 1934My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. .. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. - Adolf Hitler, April 12, 1922We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out. - Adolf Hitler, October 24, 1933National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. - Adolf Hitler, August 26, 1934The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life. - Adolf Hitler, February 1, 1933

I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinksi.Bill Clinton, President of the United States

[timwakefield 69]

I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinksi.Bill Clinton, President of the United States

We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out. - Adolf Hitler, October 24, 1933Hitler was not an atheist, nor was he an evolutionary biologist.

[ShakeZuma 586]

not to derail from this engrossing discussion on hitler's religious preference, but balloon guy, you do realize that you're getting dangerously close to supporting a ron paul position, right?

[InternetExplorer 2,620]

By forcing them to submit to an audit?I guess giving a non-elected board control of the countries fiscal policies should be done without oversight?

giving politicians more sway over fiscal policy is really not something you want if you are interested in decisions geared for the long-term.

[Balloon guy 158]

not to derail from this engrossing discussion on hitler's religious preference, but balloon guy, you do realize that you're getting dangerously close to supporting a ron paul position, right?

Yes, and I'm cool with that

giving politicians more sway over fiscal policy is really not something you want if you are interested in decisions geared for the long-term.

They did such a good job lately...

[FCP Bob 1,323]

Just a little correction to some of the above.Politicians are responsible for fiscal policy aka gov't taxing and spending.They should not be in charge of the day to day monetary policy which is best done by an independent central bank.

[FCP Bob 1,323]

As usual The Economist with excellent analysis. The presidential campaign Another fine mess A useful debate has begun about America’s biggest domestic challenge, but it is comically shallow

So it is sad to report how lacklustre the debate about government is in America. The obvious decline is on the right. This newspaper is hardly delighted that government spending has grown from 34% of GDP in 1980, when Friedman published “Free to Choose”, to over 40% today; but American conservatism has grown so angry that it has become a parody of its former self. Tax cuts are always right (even if they inflate the deficit); government activism is always wrong (even if stimulus helped avert a depression). And the right’s hypocrisy when it comes to spending on conservative projects (prisons, the armed forces, subsidies to big business) is breathtaking. George W. Bush presided over a huge growth in government.If the Republican Party has moved to the unthinking right, the Democratic Party has moved to the unreforming left. Mr Obama has shown little of Mr Clinton’s enthusiasm for modernising government: indeed, he is unpicking welfare reform, by loosening work requirements. He has presided over a huge expansion of legislation, much of it badly drafted, such as the 850-page Dodd-Frank bill (see article). Worryingly in hock to the public-sector unions, Mr Obama seems to think the public sector is inherently more moral than the private one. Companies are at best cows to be milked, at worst prey to be hunted

.

[InternetExplorer 2,620]

yeah meant monetary... of course I was drunk.

[Balloon guy 158]

Bad time for the vaulted GM bailout to be realized for the piece of dog crap it was.Who would have guessed that keeping a poorly run business afloat wouldn't pay off dividends?Normal cyclical economics demands that some businesses fail because they are not run right. Once this is done, a new company can build off the carcass and begin a viable business that employees people and turns a profit.

[FCP Bob 1,323]

Bad time for the vaulted GM bailout to be realized for the piece of dog crap it was.Who would have guessed that keeping a poorly run business afloat wouldn't pay off dividends?Normal cyclical economics demands that some businesses fail because they are not run right. Once this is done, a new company can build off the carcass and begin a viable business that employees people and turns a profit.

That article basically says that the stock price is down and they are making some changes in the management ranks and nothing more. Show me a car company whose stock isn't down with Europe going down the drain and China about to have a hard landing.http://www.google.ca/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:GMHey look GM is still profitable

[akoff 0]

That article basically says that the stock price is down and they are making some changes in the management ranks and nothing more. Show me a car company whose stock isn't down with Europe going down the drain and China about to have a hard landing.http://www.google.ca...nt=ob&q=NYSE:GMHey look GM is still profitable

That is interesting, what I read was the management seems to be in turmoil making many moves without giving changes any chance to take hold….that and market share in domestic markets are down 11 percent for the year. Mind you that is market share not total sales. If you are losing that large of a market share in that short of a period of time you have a problem. I guess a person can read an article any way they want. i prefer to read it for what it actually says.

[mrdannyg 274]

That is interesting, what I read was the management seems to be in turmoil making many moves without giving changes any chance to take hold….that and market share in domestic markets are down 11 percent for the year. Mind you that is market share not total sales. If you are losing that large of a market share in that short of a period of time you have a problem. I guess a person can read an article any way they want. i prefer to read it for what it actually says.

My favourite part of this forum is republicans quoting awfully-written sources dripping with misdirection and bias, and pointing to them as examples of their awesome reading comprehension.

[Balloon guy 158]

When your blinders are that tight...does it give you headaches?

[FCP Bob 1,323]

Well balanced article from The Economist on GMhttp://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/08/gms-bad-week?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/notyetasinkingship

[colonel Feathers 5]

My favourite part of this forum is republicans quoting awfully-written sources dripping with misdirection and bias, and pointing to them as examples of their awesome reading comprehension.

The main reason this site is so awesome. The words republican and democrat can be interchanged in any argument with no loss in accuracy.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

Bozell: Media Sliming Romney On Foreign Trip Is As Outrageous As It's Transparent