New Challenge: Movin' On Up

[BellaireDrew 2]

Drew and I had conflicting views on this hand: I feel like a small raise and cheap bluff. Drew said he tought jamming was best as we maximize our fold equity and stay away from a tough turn spot if he flats (we get to bink a J on the turn vs his set of tens and stuff)... (I am paraphrasing what drew said... he can clarify if I'm way off)

Ill give my thoughts when I get back from the casino tonight. But one thing I will say that I did not say last night is that I am not really a fan of the cbet sizing there unless it was your plan to induce a raise so you could bet/3bet the flop.

[KingJames 11]

Ill give my thoughts when I get back from the casino tonight. But one thing I will say that I did not say last night is that I am not really a fan of the cbet sizing there unless it was your plan to induce a raise so you could bet/3bet the flop.

gl winning the monies in lolive pokerzyeah, tbh I had never rootbeered without a value hand before. When I 3 and 4bet AA and KK I really like the 1/4 to 1/3 pot cbets... with two overs and a gutter I thought a small bet would be kinda cool here bc we may get a fold or a cheap turn card.I had not really thought about what to do if I got raised... (shame on me I know) but I did think bet/3b would be good once I got in that spot 0o0o0o0o0?

[SuperJon 175]

more details, and we'll be the judge of sick/decent/horribleDrew and I had conflicting views on this hand: I feel like a small raise and cheap bluff. Drew said he tought jamming was best as we maximize our fold equity and stay away from a tough turn spot if he flats (we get to bink a J on the turn vs his set of tens and stuff)... (I am paraphrasing what drew said... he can clarify if I'm way off)any thoughts?? what about a size in the middle like $9.5 or so...Villain is a TAG reg, 25/24/5AF, 9%3b, 60% fold to 3b. cbets 75% and folds to cbet of 33% (150 hand sample; winning over those hands on my hud, -2.5BB/100 loser at 40k hands of 50nl 6max)Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersCO fastliketiger: $25.00 Button AndreiS5: $37.23 SB skandi1959: $28.14 BB Hero: $25.03 UTG meatrake: $25.00 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with (5 players)2 folds, AndreiS5 raises to $0.75, skandi1959 folds, Hero raises to $2.75, AndreiS5 calls $2Flop: ($5.60) (2 players)Hero bets $1.50, AndreiS5 raises to $4.25, Hero raises to $7.25,

I do like shoving for the reasons Drew gave. When we 3bet here, and he 4bet shoves, we have to fold. When he just flats, and the turn bricks, it's not always an easy decision.Shoving the turn seems kinda spewy since we're likely always getting called by sets and AQ.Also, if I am doing this correctly:If you shove over his flop raise, you'll be shoving $18.03 into a pot of $14.10Against what I think is a reasonable range of QQ,TT,55,AQs,KJs,J9s,AQo, we are about 33%.So when he shove, it's .33 (14.10) - .67 (18.03), which gives us an expected value of -7.43 I'm sure there's probably more math to figure out different results for the times he actually folds, and the times he calls and we win.

[trystero 0]

can't bet $1.50 there unless you're trying to induce. if you were, :shovel.gif:

[SuperJon 175]

more details, and we'll be the judge of sick/decent/horrible

I'll try to give as much info as I can remember.Villain and I both have around $250-$300, but I think he had me covered at the time. In an earlier pot, he saw me lay down AJ on J6723r when his buddy on my right overbet shoved the river (he also had AJ), so that played into my decision in this hand.Preflop: 3 limpers, I limp the CO with Ah4h, Button raises to $11, HJ calls, and I call.Flop ($36) 8h 4c 5dHJ checks, I check, and the button checksTurn ($36) 8h 4c 5d JhHJ checks, I check, button bets $30, HJ calls, I call.River ($126) 8h 4c 5d Jh 9cHJ checks, I check, button bets $75, HJ folds, and I call.My thoughts were that he always cbets this flop with 99-AA. His biggest value hands that he could play this way are 88 44 55 and 67, but it's live 1-2NL, so people are just more likely to limp those hands. On the turn, when the HJ calls, I think I'm getting good enough implied odds to call and win a big pot if I hit the nut flush.The 2 biggest things that led me to call was the previous hand I played earlier, so I know that he knows that I can make a big laydown. The other thing was a physical tell which I suck at for the most part. When he bet out the $75, he put them in 3 stacks of $25. One of the stacks was a little off, and he quickly fixed it to make sure all 3 stacks were nice and neat. Just seemed really weak to me at the time.Sorry if this post is all over the place.

[donk4life 34]

Is this the right board to bet small to induce? Or is this player dependent?

[trystero 0]

Is this the right board to bet small to induce? Or is this player dependent?

I don't think it is...hits his calling range decently and no one's ever folding a pair or a draw in a 3-bet pot. IMO should either c/f or bet something normal

[donk4life 34]

I don't think it is...hits his calling range decently and no one's ever folding a pair or a draw in a 3-bet pot. IMO should either c/f or bet something normal

Yeah I agree with this. You're going to outlevel yourself so much by making these types of bets on this board. The only time I would like a play like this is if the villain knows your capable of doing this with value hands.

[Ninja Ace 1]

no one's ever folding a pair or a draw in a 3-bet pot

Are you implying there are situations where people fold pairs and/or draws?

[trystero 0]

good point NA. I didn't mean to imply that.

[fighter 4]

yeah, tbh I had never rootbeered without a value hand before. When I 3 and 4bet AA and KK I really like the 1/4 to 1/3 pot cbets... with two overs and a gutter I thought a small bet would be kinda cool here bc we may get a fold or a cheap turn card.I had not really thought about what to do if I got raised... (shame on me I know) but I did think bet/3b would be good once I got in that spot 0o0o0o0o0?

paging cobalt to this thread.

I do like shoving for the reasons Drew gave. When we 3bet here, and he 4bet shoves, we have to fold. When he just flats, and the turn bricks, it's not always an easy decision.Shoving the turn seems kinda spewy since we're likely always getting called by sets and AQ.Also, if I am doing this correctly:If you shove over his flop raise, you'll be shoving $18.03 into a pot of $14.10Against what I think is a reasonable range of QQ,TT,55,AQs,KJs,J9s,AQo, we are about 33%.So when he shove, it's .33 (14.10) - .67 (18.03), which gives us an expected value of -7.43 I'm sure there's probably more math to figure out different results for the times he actually folds, and the times he calls and we win.

why would he only win .33 of 14.10 ?

Are you implying there are situations where people fold pairs and/or draws?

I know we all like to joke but at our stakes, If we three bet then fire all barrels on Txx x x then JJ will fold the river 90% of the time.

[KosinTrouble 0]

I know we all like to joke but at our stakes, If we three bet then fire all barrels on Txx x x then JJ will fold the river 90% of the time.

I disagree.. If anything its the opposite. 10% of the time someone with JJ will fold. The rest of the time, they will cal down with an overpair.Kosin Trouble

[SuperJon 175]

why would he only win .33 of 14.10 ?

If I understand the formula for EV, it's (Our Equity * pot size) - (Villain's Equity * the amount to call). so that's how i got my numbers, but like i said, there might be more to it than just that.

[XXEddie 0]

hidi see it both ways and it's (like 99.9% of poker decisions) villain dependentXXEDDIE, are you using a hud? we neeeeeeeeeed stats and notes...My style of play, I would normally flat pre and play a smaller pot, in position vs his weakest range... I'm also just a fit/fold nit

I don't use any type of PT or HUD. I take notes of people that stand out to be, but since I just started again like a month ago there are a lot of people new to me. Like villain in this hand.

[Nashtak 0]

So i was like ''omg, let's get a new PC screen and a HDTV on boxing daaaay!'' Then i realized boxing day is probably gonna suck massive ballz anyway so thishttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?...-052-_-Homepageand thishttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?...N82E16889237019Should i pull the trigger?

[KingJames 11]

Is this the right board to bet small to induce? Or is this player dependent?

I don't think it is...hits his calling range decently and no one's ever folding a pair or a draw in a 3-bet pot. IMO should either c/f or bet something normal

excellent points. I play so bad...

...and win all the gold. He folded to my min 3-bet + 1bb; boooooom

[Nashtak 0]

I need to record those videos from deucecracked. There is no way i'm watch all of coaching kristy, coaching tree and the maths one before my trial ends. Anyone got a good tool to do that?

[KingJames 11]

I need to record those videos from deucecracked. There is no way i'm watch all of coaching kristy, coaching tree and the maths one before my trial ends. Anyone got a good tool to do that?

can you not d/l the videos on the trial

[Nashtak 0]

i 'unno[EDIT] Yes i can, too easy and legal for my taste really.

[KingJames 11]

load up and d/l as many vids as you can... than watch them over time

[Ninja Ace 1]

I know we all like to joke but at our stakes, If we three bet then fire all barrels on Txx x x then JJ will fold the river 90% of the time.

Doesn't this depend on how often we are firing multiple barrels though? It seems to me that credit gets lost rather quickly, whether or not you're doing it for value... I tend to use this to my advantage

[Ninja Ace 1]

So i was like ''omg, let's get a new PC screen and a HDTV on boxing daaaay!'' Then i realized boxing day is probably gonna suck massive ballz anyway so thishttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?...-052-_-Homepageand thishttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?...N82E16889237019Should i pull the trigger?

FWIW my HDTV is my PC screen. Get the HDTV and a vid card that accepts HTMI imo.I'm totally uncomfortable gaming on anything that isn't an HDTV after the switch because it's such a massive difference. But, don't do it without an HDMI vid card or the quality is crapAlso, the 42" 1080p @ 500 is a killer deal. Instabuy

[Nashtak 0]

Doesn't this depend on how often we are firing multiple barrels though? It seems to me that credit gets lost rather quickly, whether or not you're doing it for value... I tend to use this to my advantage

He's pointing out that people are not as bad as we say they are. What you say implies they are able to read an opponent. Now, you are giving them too much credits.

[Nashtak 0]

FWIW my HDTV is my PC screen. Get the HDTV and a vid card that accepts HTMI imo.I'm totally uncomfortable gaming on anything that isn't an HDTV after the switch because it's such a massive difference. But, don't do it without an HDMI vid card or the quality is crapAlso, the 42" 1080p @ 500 is a killer deal. Instabuy

I could hook up both to my pc. Multi-screens FTW.

[KingJames 11]

Ship that motha effin 4.0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0oI've never gotten all A's before so even though what I'm doing now is kind of a joke, it was my goal to do really well.First semester goals:[x] Go to every class[x] Get all A's[x] Go hiking a lot (I live in a beautiful place)[x] Get better at pokerz (subjective obv- don't wanna hear anything from any of you)