New Challenge: Movin' On Up

[KingJames 11]

As trystero said, I do think you need to 3bet this pre. One thing that might cause you to flat a hand in this position would be an opponent that 4-bets frequently...but then this hand is going to be strong enough to 5-bet jam on him.

vs a good opponent, I like keeping my range as wide as possible as well as "pot controlling" or whatever you want to call it from oop.Keeping in dominated aces etc is good imo

[ ] grind[x] rocketship[?] posting run good graph curse

Wow, Sean! Congrats buddy, keep up the crush!

[QED 4]

This thread is a pretty good starting pointhttp://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=12767Basically, if you're just starting out with a tracking program. I don't have a ton of stats on my HUD. I just use VPIP, PFR, Fold to 3b, Call 3b, Fold to Flop Bet, and Fold to Turn Bet. If you're using it to try to table select. You pretty much want people with low VPIP/PFR on your left, and people with high VPIP and low PFR on your right. That way when the passive players on your right are limping in all the time, you can iso a ton from the button and cutoff, and not worry about getting 3bet by the blinds very often (if at all).Not sure how much of this applies to FR, but hopefully it does.good luck!

Thanks, I'll have a look

[Stupidhead 2]

As trystero said, I do think you need to 3bet this pre. One thing that might cause you to flat a hand in this position would be an opponent that 4-bets frequently...but then this hand is going to be strong enough to 5-bet jam on him.

I think the opposite is true. If villain is 4betting wide then I'd be 3betting this all day with the intention of getting it in. If he rarely 4bets than I'd be a bit more likely to flat since I don't want to be 3bet/folding a hand this strong. Though if villain is still calling a ton of 3bets wide than I'd still 3bet here.

[KingJames 11]

I think the opposite is true. If villain is 4betting wide then I'd be 3betting this all day with the intention of getting it in. If he rarely 4bets than I'd be a bit more likely to flat since I don't want to be 3bet/folding a hand this strong. Though if villain is still calling a ton of 3bets wide than I'd still 3bet here.

Yeah, we all know trystero is a huge nit, so I think flatting is good.And then I bounced the table, bc I didn't want him to win all my gold

[Ninja Ace 1]

I think the opposite is true. If villain is 4betting wide then I'd be 3betting this all day with the intention of getting it in. If he rarely 4bets than I'd be a bit more likely to flat since I don't want to be 3bet/folding a hand this strong. Though if villain is still calling a ton of 3bets wide than I'd still 3bet here.

I get lost on plans for 5bet jamming AQ even though I end up doing it in the moment vs ppl who 4bet me a shitton... is it profitable even against a wide 4bettor? I mean I can't remember the last time I saw someone show up with AJ or KQ calling a 5bet jam. So when they call we're in a flipping/crushed situation. Isn't it a little better to flat the 4bet and plan on never folding it even unimproved? I know we pick up a ton of uncontested pots on those 5bets, but the ratio to the pot and the amount of the 5bet isn't usually laying us a fantastic price

[Stupidhead 2]

I get lost on plans for 5bet jamming AQ even though I end up doing it in the moment vs ppl who 4bet me a shitton... is it profitable even against a wide 4bettor? I mean I can't remember the last time I saw someone show up with AJ or KQ calling a 5bet jam. So when they call we're in a flipping/crushed situation. Isn't it a little better to flat the 4bet and plan on never folding it even unimproved? I know we pick up a ton of uncontested pots on those 5bets, but the ratio to the pot and the amount of the 5bet isn't usually laying us a fantastic price

I don't expect to get it in as a huge favorite. A lot of the time we'll be flipping, once in a while we'll be dominated, and occasionally we'll run into a tard who will call off light. The problem is that our flat is not going to really show weakness. So villain isn't going to continue bluffing post flop that much with complete air. Those that do are normally monkeys that would get it in with AJo and KQ.Plus we're going to be in a ton of 60/40 situations preflop against hands like 76s and J9s. A typical 4bet commits around 25% (sometimes a bit more) of villain's stack. If we shove, and he knew he was 60/40 while getting 5:3 on his money, he should call. He only needs to win 37.5% (3 outta 8) to breakeven. So he's actually making a slight -EV fold, even though everyone with a braincell would make it. Flatting also causes problems when we're against hands like 99 and 1010 that can find an easy fold on flops like AK5 or AQ4, but would have gotten it in pre. When villain does have a pair and we're never folding, he gets full value from his hand even when he's ahead. Whereas when we're ahead, we're not going to get stacks in often.

[babylondonks 5]

[ ] grind[x] rocketship[?] posting run good graph curse

Good to see you're starting to win now I'm not in your games

[CobaltBlue 662]

vs a good opponent, I like keeping my range as wide as possible as well as "pot controlling" or whatever you want to call it from oop.

In Limit, I buy this argument. In NL, as long as you have root beer in your arsenal, I think 3-betting's fine.

[babylondonks 5]

Well I mean I like flatting AQ and such hands more than most I think. But this isn't really the spot for it imo. Like, if the guy raised from UTG/UTG+1 I definitely see an argument for flatting AQ (and generally AQs is better to flat than AQo) because even when villain calls our 3bet we're OOP against what is normally a very narrow range and we don't know how to proceed on a lot of flops. Even if for whatever reason we 3b/fold AQ against a BTN raise (and I think this is fine against some opponents) we do a lot better against villains flatting range. Because even though we're OOP, villain can have a lot of weaker hands in his range that we can extract value from (KQ, QJ, AJ etc. etc.) postflop. Often when somebody flats a BB 3bet from EP they have a much stronger range including hands that dominate us. Some nits flat AK when we 3bet there, they'd flat Jacks and Queens sometimes and even Aces because they know we're folding to a 4bet a lot more because it looks so damn strong. A BTN 4bet is a lot wider by definition so they can expect us to jam AQ and whatever else far more often (not that jamming AQ is necessarily right or wrong to a 4bet). I kinda got off track from what I was going to say and more just pointing out the relative differences between 3betting a positionally aware player from where they raise, but I hope this is helpful.

[king1305 0]

In Limit, I buy this argument. In NL, as long as you have root beer in your arsenal, I think 3-betting's fine.

I can't tell if this is a serious post or a level bc of a simple two word phrase.

[trystero 0]

I should've bet $12 on the riverBut from the BTN fck so hard to get him to fold TP

[KingJames 11]

Dustin, I can crush ppl HU, also!I do like the break in rakeCows play poker with cow chipsFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 2 playersBB: $25.00 Button: $25.00 (Hero)Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is Button with (2 players)Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50Flop: ($1.50) (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB raises to $2, Hero raises to $5, BB raises to $24.25, and is all in, Hero calls $19.25, and is all inTurn: ($50.00) (2 players)River: ($50.00) (2 players)BB showed , and lost with two pair, Queens and NinesHero showed , and won ($49.50) with three of a kind, NinesHero won $49.50(Rake: $0.50)

[KingJames 11]

^^^ first hand of the match btw

I should've bet $12 on the riverBut from the BTN fck so hard to get him to fold TP

You are a nit. So I don't 3b you pre.You are a nit. So I would have folded to a river bet.Barrel me off tptk, brah!Or just stay the fuck off my tables!!!!!

[trystero 0]

You aren't folding AQ to a 3-barrel from me when I raised on the button IF I do not overbet the pot. If you fold TPTK to my triple barrel on that board for ~pot then I don't know what to tell you - I ain't the nit. I mean you could just ask if I'm 3-barreling worse for value, totally ignoring bluffs, and you could answer in the affirmative (KQ), because when you flat pf I weight you less toward AQ and more toward QJ/QT type hands. I don't think you're balancing or whatever w/monsters by check-calling two streets. If I were coming in from EP then no question I 3-barrel automatically. But that's with a range of like 13% of hands, not 30+. You must know that I'm gonna look to "outplay you" so you really shouldn't be folding to me with hands as strong as AQ on this board when you get a decent price. Had I not been so rusty and clueless then I would've made the right move, though, and overbet the pot. You've never even heard of me doing that so at least it would've put you in an unfamiliar, strange spot. pf is bad and you hafta know it. Who cares if I fold AJ/KQ to a 3-bet, really. You make my life so easy when you let me raise and see cheap flops in position with like 35% of total hands. You're lost, face-up, and out of position. Basically every option on every street sucks unless you miracle two pair+. You won $3.70 from me postflop on one of the best non-cooler boards you could've hoped for: TPTK on a dry board that never got scary. Reduce the SPR and take the initiative. imo.

[Ninja Ace 1]

You aren't folding AQ to a 3-barrel period. You will say "but I hasses pretty cardses how are they notz to be good? I call"

FYP. No need for further explanation

[KingJames 11]

I was kidding!!! I wouldn't have folded if you triple, it's a joke!!!! <3 tho

[droberts 3]

Dustin, I can crush ppl HU, also!I do like the break in rakeCows play poker with cow chipsFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 2 playersBB: $25.00 Button: $25.00 (Hero)Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is Button with (2 players)Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50Flop: ($1.50) (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB raises to $2, Hero raises to $5, BB raises to $24.25, and is all in, Hero calls $19.25, and is all inTurn: ($50.00) (2 players)River: ($50.00) (2 players)BB showed , and lost with two pair, Queens and NinesHero showed , and won ($49.50) with three of a kind, NinesHero won $49.50(Rake: $0.50)

pfff.. u needed a set to do it jkjkjknh!! and yes a break from rake is nice.

[droberts 3]

[ ] grind[x] rocketship[?] posting run good graph curse

i present to u MR. 1305 folks, bink!!!

[dlingdling 0]

I was kidding!!! I wouldn't have folded if you triple, it's a joke!!!! <3 tho

James is a student of Galfond School. Fold boats, never pairs.

[trystero 0]

James I am going to buy some poker bots and program them to come after you

[CobaltBlue 662]

I can't tell if this is a serious post or a level bc of a simple two word phrase.

It actually is a serious post. I wasn't necessarily advocating that we have to do it...just suggesting that we have it in our bag of tricks. :)Also, I agree with what babylon said.And, trystero, his hand technically wasn't quite face-up since you put him on a weaker range than he had. (I still think he should've 3-bet.)

[KingJames 11]

pfff.. u needed a set to do it jkjkjknh!! and yes a break from rake is nice.

hud, yeah I can cooler ppl like whoa

James is a student of Galfond School. Fold boats, never pairs.

epic lay downs and huge spew calls

James I am going to buy some poker bots and program them to come after you

no response

[king1305 0]

Dustin, I can cooler ppl HU, also!I do like the break in rake

FYP

James is a student of Galfond School. Fold boats, never pairs.

lololol

James I am going to buy some poker bots and program them to come after you

I know a guy in China....

[KosinTrouble 0]

To Quote Baluga Whale from Deuces Cracked...Sometimes you just have to let them hang themselves.. No point in pushing when the donkey will do the pullliing.Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 822974The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterBB: $4.39UTG: $5.00MP: $5.48CO: $6.11Hero (BTN): $5.01SB: $6.27Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with J J 1 fold, MP raises to $0.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20, 2 foldsFlop: ($0.47) T J 2 (2 players)MP bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30Turn: ($1.07) J (2 players)MP checks, Hero bets $0.60, MP raises to $1.80, Hero calls $1.20River: ($4.67) A (2 players)MP bets $3.18 all in, Hero calls $2.71 all inFinal Pot: $10.09MP shows 4 4 (two pair, Jacks and Fours)Hero shows J J (four of a kind, Jacks)Hero wins $9.42(Rake: $0.67)Kosin Trouble

[RakeMyBlind 0]

To Quote Baluga Whale from Deuces Cracked...Sometimes you just have to let them hang themselves.. No point in pushing when the donkey will do the pullliing.Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 822974The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterBB: $4.39UTG: $5.00MP: $5.48CO: $6.11Hero (BTN): $5.01SB: $6.27Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with J J 1 fold, MP raises to $0.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20, 2 foldsFlop: ($0.47) T J 2 (2 players)MP bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30Turn: ($1.07) J (2 players)MP checks, Hero bets $0.60, MP raises to $1.80, Hero calls $1.20River: ($4.67) A (2 players)MP bets $3.18 all in, Hero calls $2.71 all inFinal Pot: $10.09MP shows 4 4 (two pair, Jacks and Fours)Hero shows J J (four of a kind, Jacks)Hero wins $9.42(Rake: $0.67)Kosin Trouble

I don't play cash games at all and am pretty new to poker. With that said, why would we not 3-bet JJ preflop here? I'm not trying to criticize just wondering why we wouldn't and if we should be 3-betting here.Also, thunderstorms were around my area so I quit playing till they passed for fear of power outage. Of course, the power never goes out and it lasted a couple hours so I didn't get in anymore sngs tonight, but had I kept playing and been crushing it goes out for sure.