Lebron James

[Jadaki 1]

I was just reading the Cowboys thread. It is INCREDIBLE to see you defend Tony Romo to the death for basically the same things you kill Lebron for.....except Lebron is performing incredibly well in pressure situation (and sometimes winning sometimes losing) while Romo craps the bed every time.And teammates do matter. Lebron will take blame for defeats where it is due. I am not killing a guy for putting up 45 on the road in the playoffs. I bet most people on this forum would struggle to name a significant teammate of Dominique. Nobody is diminishing Jordan or Magic. But to ignore that they both had lots of help (and lots lots more than Lebron has ever had) is perfectly fair.

Football is a completely different sport. You can't compare Romo and Lebron, its apples and oranges and you know it. Romo has played in what... maybe 3 really important games so far in his career?I've watched probably 5 Cavs games this year, Lebron seems to be trying to play better defense, but mid range game my ass... I think I've actually only seen him take a guy to the post once and stopping to pull up for 16-18 footers when they are open, that shit doesn't happen. It was disgusting how easily he scored on another 3 in the post, so why he wants to sit at the top of the key and get double teams just screams lack of basketball IQ to me. Especially now that they have a legit PG who can run the offense. This just goes back to he looks lost in the offense without the ball in his hands, and he doesn't take advantage of his natural abilities in easy situations. You can't bitch about his teammates if he can get to the finals with them, do you see why? I can't wait for Williams to miss a big shot in a game so I can hear people bitch about him too. And the bolded part is just not true, your obviously only focusing on my posts here or you wouldn't have missed them.

[keith crime 8]

try this experimenttake every team that has ever made the NBA finals and take away their best playerI bet you 100 dollars you can't find a remaining team with worse talent than that cavs teamand it probably isnt even closebtw Lebron got the ball to Anderson Verajao on a break to win one of the spurs games - now if he had scored instead of making one of the worse shot attempts in NBA history would you have finally layed off Lebron?

[BigDMcGee 3,367]

try this experimenttake every team that has ever made the NBA finals and take away their best playerI bet you 100 dollars you can't find a remaining team with worse talent than that cavs teamand it probably isnt even closebtw Lebron got the ball to Anderson Verajao on a break to win one of the spurs games - now if he had scored instead of making one of the worse shot attempts in NBA history would you have finally layed off Lebron?

I'd say the 76'ers -AI is close.

[Jadaki 1]

Lebron's problem is that he has never had another player on his team that could create his own shot - this year he does - look at the resultsYou clearly haven't watched him this year - his mid range game is better and he's playing lock down DShaq got swept in the finals - that's about as inane an argument as i've ever heard - that Cavs team was horrid except for Lebron and that game he played against the pistons to get them there is one of the greatest performances everplus that Spurs team was awesome and if there is any championship team capable of taking a night off it was that laker squadLook at the box score for that game 7 vs boston and tell me who else contributedbtw - Dominique was a fine player and that Hawks team was good - it's not his fault that he played at the same time as Celtics and Lakers squads that were stacked with hall of famers at every positionIt's not a one man game - or did you forget that MJ was like 29 when he won his first title - and his playoff results were nowhere near as good as Lebrons his first six seasonsThe guy finally has someone to take some of the load off and they are 17-3 and leading the league in margin of victoryNo one ever said he was better than MJ or Magic but to say that he hasn't shown the potential to have a career like theirs is insane You really need to seek therapy for your angerBTW - last time I checked the entire league wasn't preparing cap space for Wade and he's a free agent the same year - is the whole NBA insane?

Shaq has 4 rings. He can get swept in the finals and still be polishing jewelry, Lebron can go home and polish off Ray Allens All Star MVP trophy I suppose. Way to blame his team again though, thanks for proving my point yet again. Lebron didn't get to the finals himself, so you can't give him credit for getting there and not take blame for losing, one comes with the other DUCY? This is my problem with your hypocritical bullshit about Lebron. All the credit for anything good, nothing bad for a loss... it's retarded.That Lakers squad lost one game the entire playoffs, it was to Iverson and the 76er's. They were not taking nights off. Any Lakers fans want to come in here and tell us that team took a night off? Poppy, Suited... anyone? Look who took all the shots in that game 7, maybe he should pass the ball or something with that great vision... or he should learn to trust his teammates like every other star player that wins titles learns to do.So you want to use the Celtics/Pistons/Lakers teams to explain why Dominique didn't do well in the playoffs, but those are the same teams Jordan was losing to early in his career. Jordan eventually overcame them. The East that Lebron took the Cavs through to the finals in was a joke, it had people asking to change the playoff system the East was so bad. Lebron never would have won any of the series that Jordan lost early in his career.You really think teams aren't clearing space for Wade, Bosh and several other players then you are an idiot.

[Jadaki 1]

I'd say the 76'ers -AI is close.

They both had Eric Snow, right?

[keith crime 8]

Jordan never got past those teams - those teams got old and disappearedthey got their asses kicked regularly by the pistons - until scottie pippen and horace grant maturedLebron is F-ing 23!!!!!!Game 7Lebron 45 - 5 6 Ben wallace 3 pts 4 rbsilgauskus 2-8 8 pts 5 rbdswally who started 0 pointsdelante west 15 ptsplayers not Lebron 16-38oh and Boston had a guy named Kevin Garnett and a guy named Ray allen in addition to pierceBoston won zero games in cleveland - in fact they didn't come close to winning one whereas three of the games in Boston were closeoh and you're own personal hero Kobe Bryant - got his ass kicked in the finals and basically gave up despite having Lamar Odom and Pau Gausol both infinitely better than any other player on the cavs rosterwhat the hell do you want him to do part the red sea?Now name a better playoff performance than the following against one of the most physical and tough defenses of the past 5 yearsCleveland 109, Detroit 107 (2OT)AUBURN HILLS, Mich., May 31 (AP) -- LeBron James grimaced, limped up to the podium and plopped into a chair behind a microphone.It was the only time he looked human all night.James had already used every ounce of energy to put together one of the most spectacular performances in playoff history, lifting the Cleveland Cavaliers to the verge of their greatest season.James' career playoff-high 48 points - including his team's final 25 and 29 of its final 30 - carried Cleveland within a win of the NBA finals for the first time in franchise history with a 109-107 double-overtime victory over the Detroit Pistons on Thursday night.You're Lebron hate is absurdagain he's 23!!!!!!!!!

[Jadaki 1]

You're Lebron hate is absurdagain he's 23!!!!!!!!!

No, your absolute blinding love of the guy is absurd. If anyone points out any real actual flaws in his game you start making up shit to try and prove them wrong, or you resort to blaming his teammates and coaches. Isn't it his job to make them better?What does him being 23 have to do with anything?

[Jadaki 1]

oh and you're own personal hero Kobe Bryant -

This shows how much you actually read what I post. I'm not a fan of Kobe Bryant. Never have been, never will be. But he is better than Lebron.

[keith crime 8]

No, your absolute blinding love of the guy is absurd. If anyone points out any real actual flaws in his game you start making up shit to try and prove them wrong, or you resort to blaming his teammates and coaches. Isn't it his job to make them better?What does him being 23 have to do with anything?

everyone has flaws in their game the great players get better every year and so has LebronIf Kobe is so much better than Lebron why did he lay such a dispirited egg in the finals last yearexplain to me this - Lebron passes to a wide open Wally Szerbiac and he bricks the shot - what else could Lebron have doneDo you forget that Jordan's huge coming out party against the Celtics scoring 63 points was a loss?Do you forget that Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points and game and 25 rebounds and yet couldn't beat the Celtics because they had a roster of hall of famers?Magic Johnson came into the league passing to Kareem James Worthy and Jamaal Wilkes - Put him on the 2007 cavs and they get swept by the spurs tooDo you forget that for years his teammates were so decried that Jordan was prophesized to be the Ernie Banks of Chicago basketballwhat does him being 23 have to do with it? Players hit their prime around 28Lebron will win the MVP this year Bank on it!

[Jadaki 1]

everyone has flaws in their game the great players get better every year and so has LebronIf Kobe is so much better than Lebron why did he lay such a dispirited egg in the finals last yearexplain to me this - Lebron passes to a wide open Wally Szerbiac and he bricks the shot - what else could Lebron have doneDo you forget that Jordan's huge coming out party against the Celtics scoring 63 points was a loss?Do you forget that Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points and game and 25 rebounds and yet couldn't beat the Celtics because they had a roster of hall of famers?Magic Johnson came into the league passing to Kareem James Worthy and Jamaal Wilkes - Put him on the 2007 cavs and they get swept by the spurs tooDo you forget that for years his teammates were so decried that Jordan was prophesized to be the Ernie Banks of Chicago basketballwhat does him being 23 have to do with it? Players hit their prime around 28Lebron will win the MVP this year Bank on it!

Yea everyone has flaws, the problem is the only area I see Lebron trying to improve is defense. He could be a lot more dominate than he is. Even bad players improve from 18-23... I'd hope he has gotten better with 5 years in the league. I don't see the point of "he has gotten better" when every player that age is getting better too.The Lakers ran into a better team, but he didn't lay an egg.. the Lakers did not get swept. Laying an egg is losing every game, something your hometown hero knows all too much about.That 63 point game against the Celtics wasn't his coming out party, I'm fully aware it was a loss as I watched that game. I'm not sure what that has to do with Lebron not being as good as him unless your ready to admit that Lebron wouldn't have been able to do that against the Celtics.What does Wilt have to do with this? The team Lebron lost to in the Finals wasn't full of HOF'ers.When Magic Johnson came into the league James Worthy was still in college, or maybe you forgot Magic came into the league in 80, and James was on that North Carolina team that was busy winning the NCAA title in 82. How did that prophesy work out? I can't count the rings on one hand... how about you help me...Okay, so your saying he is 5 years from his prime, umm... congrats?He may or may not win the MVP.

[CindyLou 11]

I bet most people on this forum would struggle to name a significant teammate of Dominique.

Doc Rivers!This thread is ridiculous.

[keith crime 8]

the fact is simple Kobe had a better supporting castthe cavs played the celtics infinitely betterKobe gave upso how can he possibly be the better playerbtw he has to be one of the worst teammates ever

[Jadaki 1]

the fact is simple Kobe had a better supporting castthe cavs played the celtics infinitely betterKobe gave upso how can he possibly be the better playerbtw he has to be one of the worst teammates ever

<---- am not a Kobe fanboy, will you get that through your thick ass skull. That I have to explain why Kobe is better just shows how biased you're to your home town team. If Lebron playing in NY (oh wait, he will be soon) and Kobe in Cleveland you would be flip flopping like an out of water fish.The Celtics were playing much better basketball in the Finals than they were in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

[Jadaki 1]

This thread is ridiculous.

Sorry, I get a kick out of trolling Cleveland fanboys. It's now one of my 3 favorite hobbies.

[keith crime 8]

<---- am not a Kobe fanboy, will you get that through your thick ass skull. That I have to explain why Kobe is better just shows how biased you're to your home town team. If Lebron playing in NY (oh wait, he will be soon) and Kobe in Cleveland you would be flip flopping like an out of water fish.The Celtics were playing much better basketball in the Finals than they were in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

what did they morph into a different teamI guess opposition means nothing

[CaneBrain 97]

Football is a completely different sport. You can't compare Romo and Lebron, its apples and oranges and you know it. Romo has played in what... maybe 3 really important games so far in his career?I've watched probably 5 Cavs games this year, Lebron seems to be trying to play better defense, but mid range game my ass... I think I've actually only seen him take a guy to the post once and stopping to pull up for 16-18 footers when they are open, that shit doesn't happen. It was disgusting how easily he scored on another 3 in the post, so why he wants to sit at the top of the key and get double teams just screams lack of basketball IQ to me. Especially now that they have a legit PG who can run the offense. This just goes back to he looks lost in the offense without the ball in his hands, and he doesn't take advantage of his natural abilities in easy situations. You can't bitch about his teammates if he can get to the finals with them, do you see why? I can't wait for Williams to miss a big shot in a game so I can hear people bitch about him too. And the bolded part is just not true, your obviously only focusing on my posts here or you wouldn't have missed them.

ok. I (me!) am not diminishing Jordan or Magic. Heck, i think Lebron is a lot like Magic (and that his natural evolution will be to play "point forward" some day). But I cannot speak for others. I can compare Romo and Lebron to the extent of how much they show up in big games. Lebron has ALWAYS shown up in big games though they have not won them all. (But they have won quite a few.) Romo seems to NEVER show up in big games. In that context, you can compare them and you know it. It is the difference between losing in spite a great performance by your best player or losing because of a poor performance by your best player. I doubt you can find one big game that the Cavs lost where Lebron threw in a complete stinker. It is not there. Conversely, you can find a bunch of big game stinkers from Romo (though, yes, you will have to include regular season games since there are less playoff games in football). (Note: I like Romo and agree with you that the criticism heaped on him is overdone. I was only using him as a comparative example.)However, I will be the first to admit that a basketball player exerts much more influence over a game by himself than a football player. 5 players versus 22.....simple math. But the QB has quite an effect so it is not a ridiculous comparison particularly since Romo gets killed for the same things you are killing Lebron for.Your problem seems to be that Lebron has not yet realized his full potential. That we both agree on. But that is not really relevant to the argument. The argument is not has Lebron maxed out his potential. The argument is.....is lebron already amazing and clearly the best or 2nd best player in the league. Even with his lack of a midrange game he still gets his 27,7,7. He still makes his teammates better by creating open shots. And I think the low basketball IQ is unjustified. He has an excellent feel for the game and is a very good passer. He has a good sense for what he can do at different spots on the court. If anything, he looks lost without the ball because he has had the ball in his hands his whole basketball life (with pretty good results).I dont agree at all that you cant bitch about his teammates just because they made the finals. You can make two arguments. One, the one you are making, is that if they made the finals his teammates cant be so bad that they are "bitch-about" worthy. The other argument is that Lebron is so great that he carried a mediocre supporting cast to the Finals. Not only is this a legit argument.....it is the ACCEPTED argument. The group of people who think Lebron has had an above average cast of players in Cleveland is you and those players and their moms.And please, please stop using the "Philly won a game against the Lakers in the finals argument." What is that? Losing badly 4-1 in the finals is somehow so much better than losing 4-0 in the finals? The Lakers maybe had an off night? I dont think that proves anything at all other than you make weird arguments. By your own definition, losing a series is losing a series even if you score 45 on the road in game 7 and barely lose. Easy on the John kerry routine. Almost as good as the incredible excuse to explain why the Cavs gave Boston such a good run last year while the Lakers got their doors blown off. The Celtics were "playing better" after the first two rounds. First, they played the Cavs in round three. So, there is that. Then, there is the plausible conclusion that the Celtics played better in the finals because their opposition crapped the bed. But no, obviously the Celtics just stepped it up in the Finals. Completely unprovable. I think you nailed it when you said you liked trolling in this thread. Most of your sports commentary shows a lot of insight. Your comments in this thread fall under troll-like.

[Jadaki 1]

They played the Cavs in the second round, the Pistons in the conference finals.Reference MaterialEdit: I have more to respond to in your post, but I have to do a conference call for the next hour or so, I'll be back

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

I'm not getting in the middle of this, but I'm not sure how people think the Lakers "crapped the bed" or got their "doors blown off". They were one bad 3rd quarter away from taking a 3-2 lead back to Boston.

[Jadaki 1]

ok. I (me!) am not diminishing Jordan or Magic. Heck, i think Lebron is a lot like Magic (and that his natural evolution will be to play "point forward" some day). But I cannot speak for others.

You have not, I agree. I also think Lebron compares a lot more to some hybrid between Dominique and Magic than anything else.

I can compare Romo and Lebron to the extent of how much they show up in big games. Lebron has ALWAYS shown up in big games though they have not won them all. (But they have won quite a few.) Romo seems to NEVER show up in big games. In that context, you can compare them and you know it. It is the difference between losing in spite a great performance by your best player or losing because of a poor performance by your best player. I doubt you can find one big game that the Cavs lost where Lebron threw in a complete stinker. It is not there. Conversely, you can find a bunch of big game stinkers from Romo (though, yes, you will have to include regular season games since there are less playoff games in football). (Note: I like Romo and agree with you that the criticism heaped on him is overdone. I was only using him as a comparative example.)

I guess this comes down to how you define big games, and I think that is somewhat different in basketball with its 82 game season and best of seven playoff formats than the NFL. There are plenty of examples of "big games" where Lebron didn't show up too. I'll cover some of those later.

However, I will be the first to admit that a basketball player exerts much more influence over a game by himself than a football player. 5 players versus 22.....simple math. But the QB has quite an effect so it is not a ridiculous comparison particularly since Romo gets killed for the same things you are killing Lebron for.

I get what you're saying, but comparing cross sports seems dumb when there are better comparisons to be made within the same sport.

Your problem seems to be that Lebron has not yet realized his full potential. That we both agree on. But that is not really relevant to the argument. The argument is not has Lebron maxed out his potential. The argument is.....is lebron already amazing and clearly the best or 2nd best player in the league. Even with his lack of a midrange game he still gets his 27,7,7. He still makes his teammates better by creating open shots. And I think the low basketball IQ is unjustified. He has an excellent feel for the game and is a very good passer. He has a good sense for what he can do at different spots on the court. If anything, he looks lost without the ball because he has had the ball in his hands his whole basketball life (with pretty good results).

My actual problem is with him being crowned the best player in the league when he has obvious weaknesses in his game, and until he learns to overcome them then I'm not supporting him being the best player in the league, that and silly Cleveland fanboys (Keith & SS24 mainly) who will be crying in 2010 are so touchy about it amuses me to point these things out. He isn't the most polished on the offensive end, I can think of several players who I would rather have the ball in their hands with the shot clock winding down than Lebron. And don't even try calling him a great defensive player. He is getting better at it, but he isn't there yet.I'd argue that with his size and power advantage at his position he should be rebounding better and his assists are great for his position, but he doesn't do everything he can to create better opportunities for other players on his team. I look at him and wonder how he isn't getting 25/12/12 every night, because he should be and I think his lack of knowledge of how to play without the ball is the cause.

I dont agree at all that you cant bitch about his teammates just because they made the finals. You can make two arguments. One, the one you are making, is that if they made the finals his teammates cant be so bad that they are "bitch-about" worthy. The other argument is that Lebron is so great that he carried a mediocre supporting cast to the Finals. Not only is this a legit argument.....it is the ACCEPTED argument. The group of people who think Lebron has had an above average cast of players in Cleveland is you and those players and their moms.

The real argument should be that a good defensive team made it out of quite possibly the most pathetic eastern conference ever. Just because people want to be on Lebron's bandwagon and rip the rest the team apart doesn't make it right. It's more trying to inflate the guy who lost, which irritates the hell out of me.

And please, please stop using the "Philly won a game against the Lakers in the finals argument." What is that? Losing badly 4-1 in the finals is somehow so much better than losing 4-0 in the finals? The Lakers maybe had an off night? I dont think that proves anything at all other than you make weird arguments. By your own definition, losing a series is losing a series even if you score 45 on the road in game 7 and barely lose. Easy on the John kerry routine.

Comparing Lebron who took a team full of poor players to the finals to Allen Iverson who did the same thing is a far more apt comparison than a QB from a football team. They were both on over matched teams, coming out of weaker conferences. Allen Iverson did something Lebron couldn't, if you can't see the comparison I don't know what to tell you. All the talk going into those finals was about the Lakers going undefeated in the post season and Iverson shut them up in game 1. The Lakers team Iverson was up against was better than the Spurs team the Cavs faced.

Almost as good as the incredible excuse to explain why the Cavs gave Boston such a good run last year while the Lakers got their doors blown off. The Celtics were "playing better" after the first two rounds. First, they played the Cavs in round three. So, there is that. Then, there is the plausible conclusion that the Celtics played better in the finals because their opposition crapped the bed. But no, obviously the Celtics just stepped it up in the Finals. Completely unprovable. I think you nailed it when you said you liked trolling in this thread. Most of your sports commentary shows a lot of insight. Your comments in this thread fall under troll-like.

See previous post, they played the Cavs in the second round. Which took place after Boston played a 7 game series with no time off to rest. They were tired and Ray Allen was still playing the worst ball of his career, so what did Lebron do... went 8 for 42 in the first two games. Do those not count as big games in your book? So what he put up 45 in a losing game 7, he shows up in game one or two and they have a better shot at winning the series.Also to the QQ about homecourt from Keith earlier, that's a simple fix... win more games during the regular season.

[keith crime 8]

Also to the QQ about homecourt from Keith earlier, that's a simple fix... win more games during the regular season.they had two big holdouts who never recovered from it and they made a huge tradewe'll see what happens this yearas for them being tired after atlanta - duh don't let atlanta take you to 7 games

[Jadaki 1]

they had two big holdouts who never recovered from it and they made a huge tradewe'll see what happens this yearas for them being tired after atlanta - duh don't let atlanta take you to 7 games

They wouldn't have had a better record than Boston anyway, they were the 4 seed.We will.They shouldn't have, but they still beat the Cavs. Doesn't change that they were prime to get jumped on early in that series and the Cav's didn't do it.

[tskillz187 0]

The god damn word is dominant. Not dominate. Lebron is a dominant player. Lebron dominates a basketball game. Jesus.

[babylondonks 5]

Sigh, okay, where to start?

And teammates do matter. Lebron will take blame for defeats where it is due. I am not killing a guy for putting up 45 on the road in the playoffs. I bet most people on this forum would struggle to name a significant teammate of Dominique.

Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, Moses Malone, Reggie Theus for starters. Then we can go deeper with guys like Randy Wittman. Though I have no idea what your second statement has to do with your first one.

Jordan never got past those teams - those teams got old and disappearedthey got their asses kicked regularly by the pistons - until scottie pippen and horace grant maturedLebron is F-ing 23!!!!!!Game 7Lebron 45 - 5 6 Ben wallace 3 pts 4 rbsilgauskus 2-8 8 pts 5 rbdswally who started 0 pointsdelante west 15 ptsplayers not Lebron 16-38oh and Boston had a guy named Kevin Garnett and a guy named Ray allen in addition to pierceBoston won zero games in cleveland - in fact they didn't come close to winning one whereas three of the games in Boston were close

Okay, so let's break it down.Game 1:Big Z - 22/12/2/2/2Ray Allen - 0/4/1/4 turnoversPaul Pierce - 4/5/4/6 turnoversGame 2: Another close game 89-73Big Z - 19/5/1/2 (9/12 shooting, lucky Lebron had an extra 12 shots to score an extra two points hey?)Game 3:Big Ben: 9/9/2/1/2 - can't ask much more for a guy that actually doesn't shoot the basketballWally - 16Delonte - 21/5/7Big Z - 12/8/6Joe Smith - 17/6Ray Allen had another magnificent 10 point gameGame 4:Wally - 14 pointsBoobie - 14/6/4Sideshow Bob - 12/6Meanwhile the big 3 shot a combined 0.405 from the floor and still stayed in it until the 4th quarterGame 5:Delonte - 21 pointsThis one goes against the norm in that the Celtics mainly showed up and Ray Allen managed an astounding 11 pointsGame 6:Ah yes, another home "blowout" 74-69Big Z had an off game and still managed 7/9/1/3Delonte had 10 (both of which are significant in a game where a score of 74 wins)Ray Allen amassed 9 pointsPierce had 16 on 5/15 shootingGame 7:Well, we all know about your "woes". Meanwhile Pierce's teammates were just tearing it up.KG - 13 pointsRay Allen - 4 pointsWell, I guess that settles it then.

Doc Rivers!This thread is ridiculous.

Yes

the fact is simple Kobe had a better supporting castthe cavs played the celtics infinitely betterKobe gave upso how can he possibly be the better playerbtw he has to be one of the worst teammates ever

How did Kobe give up? And what does he being a "bad teammate" have to do with anything? As for the bolded statement, it's the opposite. The celts played the cavs infinitely worse.

<---- am not a Kobe fanboy, will you get that through your thick ass skull. That I have to explain why Kobe is better just shows how biased you're to your home town team. If Lebron playing in NY (oh wait, he will be soon) and Kobe in Cleveland you would be flip flopping like an out of water fish.The Celtics were playing much better basketball in the Finals than they were in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

Mainly yes

I dont agree at all that you cant bitch about his teammates just because they made the finals. You can make two arguments. One, the one you are making, is that if they made the finals his teammates cant be so bad that they are "bitch-about" worthy. The other argument is that Lebron is so great that he carried a mediocre supporting cast to the Finals. Not only is this a legit argument.....it is the ACCEPTED argument. The group of people who think Lebron has had an above average cast of players in Cleveland is you and those players and their moms.Almost as good as the incredible excuse to explain why the Cavs gave Boston such a good run last year while the Lakers got their doors blown off. The Celtics were "playing better" after the first two rounds. First, they played the Cavs in round three. So, there is that. Then, there is the plausible conclusion that the Celtics played better in the finals because their opposition crapped the bed. But no, obviously the Celtics just stepped it up in the Finals. Completely unprovable. I think you nailed it when you said you liked trolling in this thread. Most of your sports commentary shows a lot of insight. Your comments in this thread fall under troll-like.

I agree with most of what you posted, aside from the football references which went way above my head :)However, almost everybody seems to be underrating the Cavs cast. Big Z is basically the best possible fit for Lebron. He runs the pick and pop better than almost anybody I've seen and his height and D is what keeps the Cavs in games. He is a top player, and I think you're all blind for not noticing this. Or we're just conveniently forgetting about him. The guy has basically infinite range, a strong body, can post up, can block shots both on-ball and weakside, rebounds well and is just a massive presence.As for the second paragraph, the Lakers didn't get their door blown off. It was only because ESPN idiots decided that the Lakers were clear favourites for no real reason. As for the statement that the C's played the Cavs in "round 3" makes me automatically discount anything else you may have said in that paragraph.

I'm not getting in the middle of this, but I'm not sure how people think the Lakers "crapped the bed" or got their "doors blown off". They were one bad 3rd quarter away from taking a 3-2 lead back to Boston.

Ehhh, sure, why not. I'm too tired to argue what is basically true (but the Lakers should carry a 3-2 lead to Boston because of the retarded way the finals are played)

[SuitedAces21 2,741]

oh and you're own personal hero Kobe Bryant - got his ass kicked in the finals and basically gave up

OUTRAGEOUS.RIDICULOUS.LUDICROUS.

[chgocubs99 0]

I'm not trying to be a douche here but keith and ss24 are clearly biased and while you may be able to occasionally find something of substance in their arguments, posting things like the press clippings from his 2OT games really don't add much value to the discussion here.