An Open Letter To Gruven

[serge 904]

Over the course of the last few days through public and private messages Gruven has expressed that he has been really upset with a few of my posts and opinions regarding the toronto media..As a member of the hockey media that covers the Leafs he took exception to some of my comments, especially the thread titled TORONTO MEDIA ARE BUFFOONS. I did in a private pm apologize for some of my comments , however he has chosen not to accept my apology and now to ignore my posts in the forum.I first like to state that a lot of the comments that were made, particularly in that thread were not to be taken seriously. At no time did I intend to attack Gruven personally or even any particular member of the media. I posted two articles(the first two that came up in a search) and as a joke called the reporters buffoons. Again I apologize for that , however I didnt think Gruven would take it personally as I have been called much more than a buffoon on these boards and its all in fun.However I would also like to point out that , as much as a reporter has a right to free speech in their job criticizing the hockey club, I also have a right to criticize the "media" in general when I dont agree with the comments that are made. I pay for the newspapers, I pay for the cable and I pay for my radio. The whole notion of the media has more to write and talk about when the Leafs lose and do bad was not something I created out of thin air. It has been reported in several forums, radio shows and ironically by other reporters. Even though the notion may be false as was communicated to me by Gruven and Howard Berger(who sent me a private email) I still have a right to express my opinion. As much as some of them disagree with me, I am positive they had a lot more stuff to talk about after the Buffalo game then the game last night in Pittsburgh.Once again I just want to apologize to Gruven personally in this public forum and i am sorry I crossed the line. However I will stand by my theories and feelings when it comes to this issue. Oh by the way the Leafs did win last night 5-2Thanks Serge

[bdc30 0]

Gruven = ?Who does he write for?

[strategy 4]

Gruven = ?Who does he write for?

Hockey Reality magazine.

[bdc30 0]

Hockey Reality magazine.

pfft, buffoons, obv ;-)

[Speed Limit 0]

Gruven = +EV

[Zach6668 513]

Can you imagine how mediocre Toronto would be if the media didn't criticize them?Like, at least there's an outside pressure to try and win in Toronto.We know that trying to sell tickets would never be a problem.Maybe if the media whines enough, Toronto will do the right thing and try to rebuild properly.

[serge 904]

The whole point I am trying to make is they are doing a lot of right things , but nobody knows about it...How about Jiri Tlusty ..19 year old high end draft pick by JFJ..Anton Stralman as well...but we only hear the negatives...Or how about not falling to the pressure and dumping Antropov for nothing and sticking with him...I just want some consistency from not just the media but the so called fans..thats all

[Zach6668 513]

The media is there for a reason.It's not to glorify decisions made by a GM.You don't see it in ANY of the cities with NHL teams, serge.The media is there to provide accountability. Someone to answer to, or to ask the questions following poor decisions.If not for the media, then JFJ or Ray Shero, or whoever, could do whatever they want with no regard for the team's future, etc. I mean, in a city like Pittsburgh, or Nashville, the main goal is probably to sell tickets, and make money. But in a market like Toronto, that's a given. They need to the media to try to keep the Leafs on the path to being a real hockey club. If not for the media, maybe Toronto goes out and makes more poor signings like the Kubina deal, McCabe deal, etc.

[serge 904]

I agree with your comments...However i dont really blame the media I guess, but the situation I guess..While Columbus might have one or two reporters who follow the team, the Leafs have 22...The added attention and pressure and criticism is not something every player can handle...Also I guess it works the other way as well....Guys like Wendel Clark and Tie Domi lived off the media...Once you are in the bad books of them though its over...Just ask Larry Murphy

[Whiter Sr 0]

This is a free country where we talk about freedom of speech. Writers are allowed to call Players lazy, overpaid, brainless, useless or whatever.Why can't anyone comment on writers like Serge did. You don't have to agree with Serge but he has a right to say something right or wrong.I think it's hypocritical to not let Serge speak.I may be way off my 2 cents.

[coesillian 0]

The media has the right to report, serge has the right to express his opinion on it and we have a right to criticize him for that opinion. Nobody infringed on anybodies rights at any point.

[gruven 530]

The media has the right to report, serge has the right to express his opinion on it and we have a right to criticize him for that opinion. Nobody infringed on anybodies rights at any point.

This is exactly right..... and, for the record, at no point did serge suggest that the media DIDN'T have the right to talk. Nor would I suggest that serge isn't entitled to his opinion. I would defend his right to voice his opinion to the bitter end, regardless of whether or not I agreed with him. What I took offense to, I communicated very clearly to serge, he has acknowledged it, and that's the end of it. Serge isn't a bad guy, by any stretch, and half of what he says he says to get a rise out of people. I simply took offense to serge suggesting that the media didn't report accurately, and that they twisted stories to suit their own purposes. Because of that, and because, obviously, serge feels my opinion is both tainted and uninformed, I have opted to simply ignore his posts. But I would never suggest he doesn't have the right to speak.

[goose 0]

The question of the media's responsibility is, in a way, a spin-off of what the game itself is. The game of hockey is not pure sport, and people do not attend or follow or watch games out of pure love of sport (save a very rare few). Look at this forum, hockey is a means of gambling more than it is a sport. We have to manufacture interest in it with a gazillion prop bets etc. To my mind sport, in its ideal form, is the pursuit of physical perfection coupled with an absolute understanding of a game and its rules. The goal of the athlete is to learn the sport as well as it can be learned and to couple that understanding with unique physical abilities to redefine the boundaries of human ability and achieve what no other on this planet can in that arena. Spectators should have an active role in it; we should understand the game ourselves so as to fully appreciate the nature and breadth of the accomplishments we're seeing. As in all human activities, greatness should be celebrated and encouraged. The NHL is not even close to that, however. I've had a chance to see a small glimmer of life behinds the scenes and it's taken my love for the game away. I respect it more, but I don't enjoy it anymore with the passion someone like Serge does, and I miss it. The NHL is an entertainment company, hockey is the medium. What we watch on television or see live at a game is hybrid of sport and marketing and other entertainment that is formed as it is because the board of directors believe it to be the most marketable product they can manufacture. If they thought making the goalie wear a dress would bring an extra $100 million in revenue in, you can bet you'd find Luongo out shopping with his mom at Dolce. So in this hybrid market of sport and entertainment, what is the purpose of the media? The sports media is reliant on the success of the sports industry, so what is their purpose? The objective reporting of what happened in the game? Please. The media shape our understanding and view of the game, though few people realize how much of their own opinions derive from what they hear on discussion panels or read in the paper. The media, for its own well being as well as the league's, always reports on whatever is most interesting and most likely to be read and bought by the public. There are limits of course, and I'm not saying the media is in open cahoots with Bettman or that they'll do anything for a story, but there are always those reporters pushing boundaries and I think it's fair to say an unsaid agreement exists between the media and the league. If there was a story that could break the league wide open, destroy the game of hockey, causing every market to fail, do you think the hockey media as a collective would want it reported? Hell no.So while the media is supposed to objectively report, they also make an effort to build up the importance of events or the skill levels of certain players or the uniqueness of a given season. I've experienced it myself trying to write a game summary, you think back over the game and go "God that was one boring-ass game, what am I going to write about?", so you find something outside the game or ancillary to the game to write about which you believe the public will be interested in (please note nobody actually read the stuff I wrote though it was published, so I never had to actually be seriously concerned about the interested level of those reading my work, I don't want to make it sound like I was actually a real part of the media, I got invited to join in the hokey-poker but I was only able to put my right foot in.)The media rarely indulges in self-examination, however, so these issues are rarely discussed. Of course everyone knows that the NHL is about entertainment as well, with some bringing in cheerleaders and all sorts of music and video montages at games and stuffed animals firing cheap merchandise to screaming fans (think about how low that is and how pathetic we become, clambering over each other for some $5 t-shirt fired out of a potato-gun), and most people don't mind it as such and welcome the illusion created by the league.

[troyomac 0]

This is exactly right..... and, for the record, at no point did serge suggest that the media DIDN'T have the right to talk. Nor would I suggest that serge isn't entitled to his opinion. I would defend his right to voice his opinion to the bitter end, regardless of whether or not I agreed with him. What I took offense to, I communicated very clearly to serge, he has acknowledged it, and that's the end of it. Serge isn't a bad guy, by any stretch, and half of what he says he says to get a rise out of people. I simply took offense to serge suggesting that the media didn't report accurately, and that they twisted stories to suit their own purposes. Because of that, and because, obviously, serge feels my opinion is both tainted and uninformed, I have opted to simply ignore his posts. But I would never suggest he doesn't have the right to speak.

I don't understand why you'll just ignore Serge because you guys have a difference of opinion on something. I disagree with my dad about loads of things, especially what I choose to do for a living. But we're not going to ignore each other because of it. Just seems a bit childish to me, especially since neither of you seem to dislike each other.

[serge 904]

The question of the media's responsibility is, in a way, a spin-off of what the game itself is. The game of hockey is not pure sport, and people do not attend or follow or watch games out of pure love of sport (save a very rare few). Look at this forum, hockey is a means of gambling more than it is a sport. We have to manufacture interest in it with a gazillion prop bets etc. To my mind sport, in its ideal form, is the pursuit of physical perfection coupled with an absolute understanding of a game and its rules. The goal of the athlete is to learn the sport as well as it can be learned and to couple that understanding with unique physical abilities to redefine the boundaries of human ability and achieve what no other on this planet can in that arena. Spectators should have an active role in it; we should understand the game ourselves so as to fully appreciate the nature and breadth of the accomplishments we're seeing. As in all human activities, greatness should be celebrated and encouraged. The NHL is not even close to that, however. I've had a chance to see a small glimmer of life behinds the scenes and it's taken my love for the game away. I respect it more, but I don't enjoy it anymore with the passion someone like Serge does, and I miss it. The NHL is an entertainment company, hockey is the medium. What we watch on television or see live at a game is hybrid of sport and marketing and other entertainment that is formed as it is because the board of directors believe it to be the most marketable product they can manufacture. If they thought making the goalie wear a dress would bring an extra $100 million in revenue in, you can bet you'd find Luongo out shopping with his mom at Dolce. So in this hybrid market of sport and entertainment, what is the purpose of the media? The sports media is reliant on the success of the sports industry, so what is their purpose? The objective reporting of what happened in the game? Please. The media shape our understanding and view of the game, though few people realize how much of their own opinions derive from what they hear on discussion panels or read in the paper. The media, for its own well being as well as the league's, always reports on whatever is most interesting and most likely to be read and bought by the public. There are limits of course, and I'm not saying the media is in open cahoots with Bettman or that they'll do anything for a story, but there are always those reporters pushing boundaries and I think it's fair to say an unsaid agreement exists between the media and the league. If there was a story that could break the league wide open, destroy the game of hockey, causing every market to fail, do you think the hockey media as a collective would want it reported? Hell no.So while the media is supposed to objectively report, they also make an effort to build up the importance of events or the skill levels of certain players or the uniqueness of a given season. I've experienced it myself trying to write a game summary, you think back over the game and go "God that was one boring-ass game, what am I going to write about?", so you find something outside the game or ancillary to the game to write about which you believe the public will be interested in (please note nobody actually read the stuff I wrote though it was published, so I never had to actually be seriously concerned about the interested level of those reading my work, I don't want to make it sound like I was actually a real part of the media, I got invited to join in the hokey-poker but I was only able to put my right foot in.)The media rarely indulges in self-examination, however, so these issues are rarely discussed. Of course everyone knows that the NHL is about entertainment as well, with some bringing in cheerleaders and all sorts of music and video montages at games and stuffed animals firing cheap merchandise to screaming fans (think about how low that is and how pathetic we become, clambering over each other for some $5 t-shirt fired out of a potato-gun), and most people don't mind it as such and welcome the illusion created by the league.

This was one of the best written and well thought out posts i have read on here..great work nate, you really do have some talent as a writer and hopefully you will pursue it...

[serge 904]

sorry double post

[strategy 4]

The question of the media's responsibility is, in a way, a spin-off of what the game itself is. The game of hockey is not pure sport, and people do not attend or follow or watch games out of pure love of sport (save a very rare few). Look at this forum, hockey is a means of gambling more than it is a sport. We have to manufacture interest in it with a gazillion prop bets etc. To my mind sport, in its ideal form, is the pursuit of physical perfection coupled with an absolute understanding of a game and its rules. The goal of the athlete is to learn the sport as well as it can be learned and to couple that understanding with unique physical abilities to redefine the boundaries of human ability and achieve what no other on this planet can in that arena. Spectators should have an active role in it; we should understand the game ourselves so as to fully appreciate the nature and breadth of the accomplishments we're seeing. As in all human activities, greatness should be celebrated and encouraged. The NHL is not even close to that, however. I've had a chance to see a small glimmer of life behinds the scenes and it's taken my love for the game away. I respect it more, but I don't enjoy it anymore with the passion someone like Serge does, and I miss it. The NHL is an entertainment company, hockey is the medium. What we watch on television or see live at a game is hybrid of sport and marketing and other entertainment that is formed as it is because the board of directors believe it to be the most marketable product they can manufacture. If they thought making the goalie wear a dress would bring an extra $100 million in revenue in, you can bet you'd find Luongo out shopping with his mom at Dolce. So in this hybrid market of sport and entertainment, what is the purpose of the media? The sports media is reliant on the success of the sports industry, so what is their purpose? The objective reporting of what happened in the game? Please. The media shape our understanding and view of the game, though few people realize how much of their own opinions derive from what they hear on discussion panels or read in the paper. The media, for its own well being as well as the league's, always reports on whatever is most interesting and most likely to be read and bought by the public. There are limits of course, and I'm not saying the media is in open cahoots with Bettman or that they'll do anything for a story, but there are always those reporters pushing boundaries and I think it's fair to say an unsaid agreement exists between the media and the league. If there was a story that could break the league wide open, destroy the game of hockey, causing every market to fail, do you think the hockey media as a collective would want it reported? Hell no.So while the media is supposed to objectively report, they also make an effort to build up the importance of events or the skill levels of certain players or the uniqueness of a given season. I've experienced it myself trying to write a game summary, you think back over the game and go "God that was one boring-ass game, what am I going to write about?", so you find something outside the game or ancillary to the game to write about which you believe the public will be interested in (please note nobody actually read the stuff I wrote though it was published, so I never had to actually be seriously concerned about the interested level of those reading my work, I don't want to make it sound like I was actually a real part of the media, I got invited to join in the hokey-poker but I was only able to put my right foot in.)The media rarely indulges in self-examination, however, so these issues are rarely discussed. Of course everyone knows that the NHL is about entertainment as well, with some bringing in cheerleaders and all sorts of music and video montages at games and stuffed animals firing cheap merchandise to screaming fans (think about how low that is and how pathetic we become, clambering over each other for some $5 t-shirt fired out of a potato-gun), and most people don't mind it as such and welcome the illusion created by the league.

nice post.

[strategy 4]

The question of the media's responsibility is, in a way, a spin-off of what the game itself is. The game of hockey is not pure sport, and people do not attend or follow or watch games out of pure love of sport (save a very rare few). Look at this forum, hockey is a means of gambling more than it is a sport. We have to manufacture interest in it with a gazillion prop bets etc. To my mind sport, in its ideal form, is the pursuit of physical perfection coupled with an absolute understanding of a game and its rules. The goal of the athlete is to learn the sport as well as it can be learned and to couple that understanding with unique physical abilities to redefine the boundaries of human ability and achieve what no other on this planet can in that arena. Spectators should have an active role in it; we should understand the game ourselves so as to fully appreciate the nature and breadth of the accomplishments we're seeing. As in all human activities, greatness should be celebrated and encouraged. The NHL is not even close to that, however. I've had a chance to see a small glimmer of life behinds the scenes and it's taken my love for the game away. I respect it more, but I don't enjoy it anymore with the passion someone like Serge does, and I miss it. The NHL is an entertainment company, hockey is the medium. What we watch on television or see live at a game is hybrid of sport and marketing and other entertainment that is formed as it is because the board of directors believe it to be the most marketable product they can manufacture. If they thought making the goalie wear a dress would bring an extra $100 million in revenue in, you can bet you'd find Luongo out shopping with his mom at Dolce. So in this hybrid market of sport and entertainment, what is the purpose of the media? The sports media is reliant on the success of the sports industry, so what is their purpose? The objective reporting of what happened in the game? Please. The media shape our understanding and view of the game, though few people realize how much of their own opinions derive from what they hear on discussion panels or read in the paper. The media, for its own well being as well as the league's, always reports on whatever is most interesting and most likely to be read and bought by the public. There are limits of course, and I'm not saying the media is in open cahoots with Bettman or that they'll do anything for a story, but there are always those reporters pushing boundaries and I think it's fair to say an unsaid agreement exists between the media and the league. If there was a story that could break the league wide open, destroy the game of hockey, causing every market to fail, do you think the hockey media as a collective would want it reported? Hell no.So while the media is supposed to objectively report, they also make an effort to build up the importance of events or the skill levels of certain players or the uniqueness of a given season. I've experienced it myself trying to write a game summary, you think back over the game and go "God that was one boring-ass game, what am I going to write about?", so you find something outside the game or ancillary to the game to write about which you believe the public will be interested in (please note nobody actually read the stuff I wrote though it was published, so I never had to actually be seriously concerned about the interested level of those reading my work, I don't want to make it sound like I was actually a real part of the media, I got invited to join in the hokey-poker but I was only able to put my right foot in.)The media rarely indulges in self-examination, however, so these issues are rarely discussed. Of course everyone knows that the NHL is about entertainment as well, with some bringing in cheerleaders and all sorts of music and video montages at games and stuffed animals firing cheap merchandise to screaming fans (think about how low that is and how pathetic we become, clambering over each other for some $5 t-shirt fired out of a potato-gun), and most people don't mind it as such and welcome the illusion created by the league.

I think the thing I enjoy about this post the most is the fact that it is so well-worded as serge said.

[serge 904]

I don't understand why you'll just ignore Serge because you guys have a difference of opinion on something. I disagree with my dad about loads of things, especially what I choose to do for a living. But we're not going to ignore each other because of it. Just seems a bit childish to me, especially since neither of you seem to dislike each other.

It really is strange, but its his prerogative...I actually think that Gruven has a lot to add to this board and is a knowledgeable guy..However if he wants to ignore me basically because I disagree with him he is the one who is childish...It actually goes to further my theories regarding the issue at hand...I never said the media lies and misreports the truths, however they choose to report and promote whatever they feel will sell the most papers. You can basically spin any story to make it sound any way you want it too....I have my opinions and i will stick to them, and I am not going to lose sleep if gruven ignores me...GO LEAFS GO

[Belanger25 3]

Ignore the ignorance? Or ignorance to ignore.Tough questions

[digitalmonkey 929]

The question of the media's responsibility is, in a way, a spin-off of what the game itself is. The game of hockey is not pure sport, and people do not attend or follow or watch games out of pure love of sport (save a very rare few). Look at this forum, hockey is a means of gambling more than it is a sport. We have to manufacture interest in it with a gazillion prop bets etc. To my mind sport, in its ideal form, is the pursuit of physical perfection coupled with an absolute understanding of a game and its rules. The goal of the athlete is to learn the sport as well as it can be learned and to couple that understanding with unique physical abilities to redefine the boundaries of human ability and achieve what no other on this planet can in that arena. Spectators should have an active role in it; we should understand the game ourselves so as to fully appreciate the nature and breadth of the accomplishments we're seeing. As in all human activities, greatness should be celebrated and encouraged. The NHL is not even close to that, however. I've had a chance to see a small glimmer of life behinds the scenes and it's taken my love for the game away. I respect it more, but I don't enjoy it anymore with the passion someone like Serge does, and I miss it. The NHL is an entertainment company, hockey is the medium. What we watch on television or see live at a game is hybrid of sport and marketing and other entertainment that is formed as it is because the board of directors believe it to be the most marketable product they can manufacture. If they thought making the goalie wear a dress would bring an extra $100 million in revenue in, you can bet you'd find Luongo out shopping with his mom at Dolce. So in this hybrid market of sport and entertainment, what is the purpose of the media? The sports media is reliant on the success of the sports industry, so what is their purpose? The objective reporting of what happened in the game? Please. The media shape our understanding and view of the game, though few people realize how much of their own opinions derive from what they hear on discussion panels or read in the paper. The media, for its own well being as well as the league's, always reports on whatever is most interesting and most likely to be read and bought by the public. There are limits of course, and I'm not saying the media is in open cahoots with Bettman or that they'll do anything for a story, but there are always those reporters pushing boundaries and I think it's fair to say an unsaid agreement exists between the media and the league. If there was a story that could break the league wide open, destroy the game of hockey, causing every market to fail, do you think the hockey media as a collective would want it reported? Hell no.So while the media is supposed to objectively report, they also make an effort to build up the importance of events or the skill levels of certain players or the uniqueness of a given season. I've experienced it myself trying to write a game summary, you think back over the game and go "God that was one boring-ass game, what am I going to write about?", so you find something outside the game or ancillary to the game to write about which you believe the public will be interested in (please note nobody actually read the stuff I wrote though it was published, so I never had to actually be seriously concerned about the interested level of those reading my work, I don't want to make it sound like I was actually a real part of the media, I got invited to join in the hokey-poker but I was only able to put my right foot in.)The media rarely indulges in self-examination, however, so these issues are rarely discussed. Of course everyone knows that the NHL is about entertainment as well, with some bringing in cheerleaders and all sorts of music and video montages at games and stuffed animals firing cheap merchandise to screaming fans (think about how low that is and how pathetic we become, clambering over each other for some $5 t-shirt fired out of a potato-gun), and most people don't mind it as such and welcome the illusion created by the league.

19That's the number of trees you could have planted in the time it took you to write this.

[goose 0]

19That's the number of trees you could have planted in the time it took you to write this.

I plant a tree every 4.5 seconds roughly, that probably took ten minutes to write, so more like 135 trees or so, at 10c a tree that is lost production of $13.50. What am I doing on here?