Bible--god Inspired?

[DonkSlayer 1]

How is the bible evidence that God exists? The reality is there is no possible way to even begin to prove God exists. Therefore, a Christians belief in their God is no more valid than any other belief in a different type of God. If I giant being came from the sky, ended world hunger, and said he was God bow to him or die, people would believe him. However, he could never prove that there aren't other Giant beings as powerful as him that don't require followers to bow. There is no way to know for sure that he is the one true God, and not "Satan" in disguise, and not just one God out of a billion.

Well, at least you admit your denial is blanketing.

[zzz 0]

Well, at least you admit your denial is blanketing.

First of all, I never admitted to being in denial. Therefore, you just lied.Sorry that is not denial. In that example the fact is that giant is very powerful and claims he is God. However, there is no way of knowing he is A God, THE God, THE Devil, A Devil, or just one out of 1 billion powerful giants. Care to explain why you believe I'm in denial? Good luck with that.

[DonkSlayer 1]

First of all, I never admitted to being in denial. Therefore, you just lied.Sorry that is not denial. In that example the fact is that giant is very powerful and claims he is God. However, there is no way of knowing he is A God, THE God, THE Devil, A Devil, or just one out of 1 billion powerful giants. Care to explain why you believe I'm in denial? Good luck with that.

I would argue that you're in an odd state of denial because you would question a large Giant who came down from the sky and showed divine power lol. and um, regardless of whether I lied, you think I lied, etc, I could give a shyt.

[zzz 0]

I would argue that you're in an odd state of denial because you would question a large Giant who came down from the sky and showed divine power lol. and um, regardless of whether I lied, you think I lied, etc, I could give a shyt.

He could be telling the truth. He could be God. But that still doesn't rule out that there are also 1 billion other Gods that don't require bowing to live.It's tough carrying on a real conversation with a liar.

[DonkSlayer 1]

He could be telling the truth. He could be God. But that still doesn't rule out that there are also 1 billion other Gods that don't require bowing to live.It's tough carrying on a real conversation with a liar.

It's tough carrying on a real conversation when we obviously can't agree on the question being discussed. You keep trying to go back to why Christians "choose" one, but I'm telling you that they don't, so why you keep going back to that instead of trying to deal with the stipulation is beyond me.From dictionary.com:lie1  /laɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, lied, ly‧ing.–noun1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.I inferred that you were in denial from your comments. I do not know that you are not in denial, nor have I seen evidence that you would not be in denial if a God revealed himself/herself to you today, so I therefore did not "lie."Of course, calling me a liar when I did not lie may in fact makes you a liar as well, at least according to your non-standard standards.

[zzz 0]

It's tough carrying on a real conversation when we obviously can't agree on the question being discussed. You keep trying to go back to why Christians "choose" one, but I'm telling you that they don't, so why you keep going back to that instead of trying to deal with the stipulation is beyond me.From dictionary.com:lie1  /laɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, lied, ly‧ing.–noun1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.I inferred that you were in denial from your comments. I do not know that you are not in denial, nor have I seen evidence that you would not be in denial if a God revealed himself/herself to you today, so I therefore did not "lie."Of course, calling me a liar when I did not lie may in fact makes you a liar as well, at least according to your non-standard standards.

People choose to become Christians in the first place. You're right, in order to be a Christian you have to BELIEVE in certain things. You have no choice in what you believe if you want to remain a Christian. Believing so strongly in something that for you it becomes fact (like the christian god is THE god) is a delusional way of thinking. The fact is there is no evidence showing your God is A God, let alone THE God.Denial means rejecting facts despite overwhelming evidence. Where have I done that?

[WrongWay 0]

Because, and you can't get your mind around this exactly, a Christian didn't "invent" a God to believe in. That God was there before the Christian, and after. so, it isn't really a matter of believing in an ideal God, it's believing in THE God.

Did Allah exist before the Arabs discoveed him, or was he already there? Zeus? Oden? Ra? Mithra? Ginesh? All of the thousands and thousands of gods????Or are some gods created by man? If some gods are created by man, how can you be so sure yours is not?

Nobody "knows" anything about a spiritual or divine realm. It's faith-based.

And yet, if you say "you believe" then you are saying that you do "know".

You're incorrect to make it seem like such a farce, though.

No!!! You are taking a completely unreasonible belief and placing it on a pediastal above question. That is a FARCE!!!!!!!!!!!!You believe without ANY reason to believe. You poor, poor, misguided, sucker.

We don't yet know the source of gravity..we define it by it's effects. Scientists know planets exist often well before they actually grab an image of it....they can tell by the effects it has on other celestial bodies and events around it.

Gravity is its effects. It is 1 of the 4 fundimental forces of the universe. 2 masses attract directly proportionate to their mass, inversly proportionate to the square of their distance.....Or more modernly, gravity is the warping of space time in such a way that a straight line from one relative location is a curved path from another. Earth is travelling in a straight line from its prospective, but from the sun's prospective it is travelling in an elipse....Why the change in the way we think about gravity? Better data came along.Once upon a time, people assumed the world was a flat disk, set on foundations within a great sea, covered with a sky dome. They beleived this disk and the dome were all created by an intelligent being that sat ontop of the sky dome and looked down upon us as if we were grasshoppers. And, this God demanded worship and obedience. Any tresspass against him resulted in flood, fire, death, destruction.....Christianity was so Earth shaking, not because God was proported to be born in human form. It was earth shaking because it REDEFINED GOD from a complete bung hole, into a kind, caring and forgiving shephard.Copernicus's assertion that the earth goes aroud the sun, not the other way around, was so earth shaking, not because it redefined which ball floating in space went around which.... It was so radical because it defied the understanding of the universe. We were no longer on a dome covered disk with the sun being a light attached to the inside of that dome..... No dome? But there has to be!!! Heaven is a physical place on top of that dome where God sits at the right hand of himself.Look, it is all just a silly farce. Christianity has evolved, making more and more of the Bible "figurative"..... But at its core, it is all just a silly ancient mythology.... Sadly, one that people still believe despite no evidence for it and unquestionably huge amount of data against it.

[DerekTah 0]

There is no evidence showing that "God is actually "God" and not "Satan" and not made up. If you are going to BELIEVE in God, why not BELIEVE in a more loving God? It is silly to BELIEVE in a God that doesn't fit your description of an ideal God.

Yes, your right, that why its called "faith" and "religion" and not "science".I mean do you do this with all philosophies as well.If someone said "I don't believe that capital punishment should be used, even against the worst murders" or vica versa, do you force them to prove their beliefs to you.There is no proof that God is not Satan, there is also no proof that God is not God either.

[WrongWay 0]

Yes, your right, that why its called "faith" and "religion" and not "science".I mean do you do this with all philosophies as well.If someone said "I don't believe that capital punishment should be used, even against the worst murders" or vica versa, do you force them to prove their beliefs to you.There is no proof that God is not Satan, there is also no proof that God is not God either.

Use of capital punishment is subjective. It is humans making a decision over which course of action they will take. There is no "right" answer. Humans can decide capital punishment into existance, and we can decide it out of existance.Christians assert that God is not subjective. They assert he is objective, exisiting outside of human decision. We can't decide him into existance. We can't decide him out of existance. If you want to assert that something exists objectivly, than the burden of proof is on you.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Denial means rejecting facts despite overwhelming evidence. Where have I done that?

To watch a magical giant fall from the sky, perform miracles, and then deny him a divine status, would be denial. Right?

You believe without ANY reason to believe. You poor, poor, misguided, sucker.

I have not discussed my faith or lack thereof. Please do not use "you" or "your" anymore. A religious person would offer several reasons why they believe, why they should believe, why it's best to believe. You are less likely to hear them when you call them names.

Gravity is its effects. It is 1 of the 4 fundamental forces of the universe. 2 masses attract directly proportionate to their mass, inversely proportionate to the square of their distance.....

Cool, learn to spell.

Look, it is all just a simmy farce. Christianity has evolved, making more and more of the Bible "figurative"..... But at its core, it is all just a silly ancient mythology.... Sadly, one that people still believe despite no evidence for it and unquestionably huge amount of data against it.

I don't know why it bothers you so much, but while a religious person cannot prove their God's existence because of the lack of evidence against it, neither can you disprove that a particular god does not exist. Any religious person can say that evolution is the work of God, or that Allah was the reason the earth shifted at the very moment it created a huge Tsunami to devastate so many lives a year back. You cannot disprove these beliefs, however likely or unlikely they are, so really there is no data "against" it.

[zzz 0]

Yes, your right, that why its called "faith" and "religion" and not "science".I mean do you do this with all philosophies as well.If someone said "I don't believe that capital punishment should be used, even against the worst murders" or vica versa, do you force them to prove their beliefs to you.There is no proof that God is not Satan, there is also no proof that God is not God either.

Not the same. There is evidence that capital punishment exists. No evidence of God existing.Again, then why not choose to believe in a more loving God? Or are you gonna be delusional and say, "I have no choice! The Christian God is THE God. I believe in that so strongly it has become fact to me eventhough I have no evidence to back it up!"

[DonkSlayer 1]

If you want to assert that something exists objectivly, than the burden of proof is on you.

Unless, of course, one finds better things to do than having to prove an unprovable to someone who won't believe it either way.

[WrongWay 0]

Unless, of course, one finds better things to do than having to prove an unprovable to someone who won't believe it either way.

cognitive dissonance  Psychology: anxiety that results from simultaneously holding contradictory or otherwise incompatible attitudes, beliefs, or the like. You want to prove to us that God exists... Or at a minimum, justify your own belief in the Christian mythology. You are not an unreasonable person, so your beliefs are not unreasonable.Meanwhile are slowly being forced to admit that you can neither prove God to us, nor justify your own belief in it. Your beliefs truely are unreasonable.....This "find better things to do" or "you're the one with the problem" attack against us non-beleivers is a natural human response to the discomfort that comes from cognitive dissonance. When painted into a corner, it is common to attack.It is uncomfortable I know... but it will be okay. Your beliefs are unreasonable, but you choose to hold on to tham anyway. Just admitting that is a HUGE step forward.Next step is to face this fear of hell..... No one wants to go to hell. That's okay, it doesn't exist, and even if it does, would a kind and caring and forgiving God punish you with it for the only unforgivable sin of using your brain? Or, does it make more sense that those that wish to make you accept thier beliefs have invented it to keep you in line? No, not a conspiracy of nuts. Natural human tendency to want people to agree with them, and if they can't justify their beleifs with data and logic, the naturally revert to higher power.I had an atheist friend that was an animal rights wacco. She fell into the trap of objectifying morality as a way to try to force other o agree with her when logic failed. Appeal to unqualified authority is a very tempting fallacy when logic fails. Don't fall into the trap.

[DerekTah 0]

Use of capital punishment is subjective. It is humans making a decision over which course of action they will take. There is no "right" answer. Humans can decide capital punishment into existance, and we can decide it out of existance.Christians assert that God is not subjective. They assert he is objective, exisiting outside of human decision. We can't decide him into existance. We can't decide him out of existance. If you want to assert that something exists objectivly, than the burden of proof is on you.

Well, gee can't I say the same for Athesists, wouldn't their view of God non-existance also be objective (or is it one of those, you don't need to proof something doesn't exist, you need to prove something exists debates)?Avoiding that come the simple fact: the belief in God in not objective but subjective. There is no objective proof of God nor is their objective poof of non-God. Its a belief, you either believe or you don't.

[WrongWay 0]

Cool, learn to spell.

I've tried.... Just as some are incapable of grasping the finer points of calculus or Einteinian Relativity, I am incapable of memorizing how to spell every word in the English language....or even the ones used reasonibly frequently. My brian just doesn't work that way.Gravity I get. Big Bang cosmology I get. Particle physics I get.... Memorization, I can't do.I'm also color vision difficient. Many shades of red and green look grey to me. Would you say to me "Learn to see color" when I descibe the traffic light as having red, yellow and grey lights? Would you tell me to "Learn to see color" when I descrie a baby blue shirt as white?

I don't know why it bothers you so much, but while a religious person cannot prove their God's existence because of the lack of evidence against it, neither can you disprove that a particular god does not exist. Any religious person can say that evolution is the work of God, or that Allah was the reason the earth shifted at the very moment it created a huge Tsunami to devastate so many lives a year back. You cannot disprove these beliefs, however likely or unlikely they are, so really there is no data "against" it.

It is impossible to disprove ANYTHING. Should we believe EVERYTING? Is it reasonable to believe that the earth is the body of Tiamat the dragon?Is it reasonable to believe that there is a giant bird so large that it carries a lake on its back, that rian is water falling off this giant bird back, and if we want rain to water our crops, then it is reasonable to chant and dance and play music that will attract this bird? Is it reasonable to believe that rain comes from a god that demands human sacrifice. That if we want rain, draw straws, and short stick gets his head chopped off.... Oh, it didn't rain. Draw straws again, and this time we torture the person for awhile before killing him... oh look, it rained. Now we have to torture and kill someone every time we want rain.Maybe god uses comits as transportation devices, and if we want to go see God, we have to kill ourselves next time a commit is visable in the night sky.If we believe that which can not be proved, than we can believe ANYTHING.I prefer to believe only that which can be proved, AND beleive it only as strongly as evidence supports, AND only until better evidence comes along that proves something else is likely to be more correct.I think this is MUCH better than believing everything and anything.

[WrongWay 0]

Well, gee can't I say the same for Athesists, wouldn't their view of God non-existance also be objective (or is it one of those, you don't need to proof something doesn't exist, you need to prove something exists debates)?Avoiding that come the simple fact: the belief in God in not objective but subjective. There is no objective proof of God nor is their objective poof of non-God. Its a belief, you either believe or you don't.

First, one must define atheist.... A: without. Theist: belief in God.Do I believe in God? No. I see no reason to believe in God, and followers are unable to adequetly explain to me why they beleive. It usually comes down to "I beleive because I believe."Or A:Anti. The classic definition of Atheist is one that disbelieves in God.... big G. So, we look up capital G "God" and we find all know, all powerful, all good, intelligent creator fo the universe as defined by one of the worlds religions.If there is a god that created space/time, then it must exist outside of time and space, and is therefore beyond our ability to gain knowledge of it. I therefore think that any relgion that proports to perscribe attributes to the unknowable must be wrong. Therefore, I believe that any of the Gods of each of the major religions must not exist as they describe it.Put another way, a Crisitian is an atheist to all Gods except 1. You can not disprove Ra or Zeus or Oden, yet you are still atheistic towards them. I just take it one God further.But doesn't that make me an Agnostic. yep. I'm a weak atheist....asserting I do not beleive in the existance of a God. I refuse to say that I know there is no higher reality, which is the realm of the strong atheist.I'm also a strong agnostic, one that it asserts that it is impossible to know if there is a higher reality, and therefor, anyone that claims knowledge is incorrect.

Avoiding that come the simple fact: the belief in God in not objective but subjective. There is no objective proof of God nor is their objective poof of non-God. Its a belief, you either believe or you don't.

Of course belief in God is subjective. All belief is subjective, by definition! Subjective means it exists only within the context of a human mind.Things that are subjective ARE NOT REAL. They don't exist in reality outside of a human mind.We're not talking about beleif in God existing, as the belief clearly exists. We're talking about GOD's existance. Does GOD exist outside of a human mind?

[DonkSlayer 1]

I prefer to believe only that which can be proved, AND beleive it only as strongly as evidence supports, AND only until better evidence comes along that proves something else is likely to be more correct.I think this is MUCH better than believing everything and anything.

Cool. I respect your beliefs. Please stop telling me I believe something when I'm simply debating, and not talking about my own beliefs.As for your memorization problem, regardless of whether it is a learning disability or just laziness, the issue is very glaring while you're doing your best to point out what you believe are the mental inadequacies of others.I don't think any of this has to do with the original question put forward by the OP. My response to it was that usually those that believe in a diety accept it for whatever that religion tells the person the divinity is, so anything "illogical" with the deity is no different than your parent telling you to do something and then doing something else themselves...it doesn't mean they don't exist or that a child can chose another parent. ZZzz didn't understand that so that's why we got on a tangent.

[79 0]

BiBlEDT

[WrongWay 0]

As for your memorization problem, regardless of whether it is a learning disability or just laziness, the issue is very glaring while you're doing your best to point out what you believe are the mental inadequacies of others.

Go read some of my posts in the "how stupid to you have to believe in God" thread. There I lay out a very strong argument that beleif in God has nothing to do with intelligence, or lack of it. Humans have a flaw that allows us to hold false beliefs. Every bit of data that fits, strengthens this false beleif. Every bit of data that does not fit is easily ignored. Being correct is not a matter of intelligence. It is a matter of recognizing how human brains work by default, and making conscious effort not to let your brain work that way. Consciously force yourself to be constantly re-evaluating ALL of your beliefs against all of the available data.Faith is not stupidity. It is embracing and glorifying a basic and universal flaw in how the human brain works.

I don't think any of this has to do with the original question put forward by the OP. My response to it was that usually those that believe in a diety accept it for whatever that religion tells the person the divinity is, so anything "illogical" with the deity is no different than your parent telling you to do something and then doing something else themselves...

This is a statement that you do believe, and explains how you can easily dismiss inconsistancies with the Christian diety.This in no way addressed the original post. How do you know the Bible was inspired by God? Could the Bible be inspired by Satan? If it were inspired by Satan, how would you know?

[Loismustdie 0]

Go read some of my posts in the "how stupid to you have to believe in God" thread. There I lay out a very strong argument that beleif in God has nothing to do with intelligence, or lack of it. Humans have a flaw that allows us to hold false beliefs. Every bit of data that fits, strengthens this false beleif. Every bit of data that does not fit is easily ignored. Being correct is not a matter of intelligence. It is a matter of recognizing how human brains work by default, and making conscious effort not to let your brain work that way. Consciously force yourself to be constantly re-evaluating ALL of your beliefs against all of the available data.Faith is not stupidity. It is embracing and glorifying a basic and universal flaw in how the human brain works.This is a statement that you do believe, and explains how you can easily dismiss inconsistancies with the Christian diety.This in no way addressed the original post. How do you know the Bible was inspired by God? Could the Bible be inspired by Satan? If it were inspired by Satan, how would you know?

That's about as idiotic as it gets. The bible points the way to good, why the hell would Satan do that?

[WrongWay 0]

That's about as idiotic as it gets. The bible points the way to good, why the hell would Satan do that?

Because maybe Satan, the dude that wants you to be free and happy, he wants you to think and question, is the good guy. And maybe Jehovah/YHWH dude, that demands absolute obedience, drowns burns, tortures, orders genocide, etc.... maybe it is this dude that is evil.Maybe Jesus wasn't being Tempted by the devil, but advised in the ways of love and forgiveness.How do you KNOW that the cruel and unforgiving "God" of the Old Testiment is the "good" one?Of course, the question is mute since it is highly unlikely that either of these dudes are real.

[Loismustdie 0]

Because maybe Satan, the dude that wants you to be free and happy, he wants you to think and question, is the good guy. And maybe Jehovah/YHWH dude, that demands absolute obedience, drowns burns, tortures, orders genocide, etc.... maybe it is this dude that is evil.Maybe Jesus wasn't being Tempted by the devil, but advised in the ways of love and forgiveness.How do you KNOW that the cruel and unforgiving "God" of the Old Testiment is the "good" one?Of course, the question is mute since it is highly unlikely that either of these dudes are real.

Again, ludicrous thought process. Maybe the mentally retarded are the normal people- maybe they are the superior race!! Maybe this, maybe that. The truth is this, plain and simple- nothing advocated by Jesus in New Testament law is evil in any way- even people who don't believe the bible is God inspired are generally smart enough to realize that. To argue that it came from a source of evil is to argue that killing someone is good, and not killing them, and forgiving them for actions they took that crossed you, well, that's bad. You should kill. Yeah, killing is the best option. Your name is WrongWay, and man you do a good job heading that exact direction. I applaud you.

[zzz 0]

Again, ludicrous thought process. Maybe the mentally retarded are the normal people- maybe they are the superior race!! Maybe this, maybe that. The truth is this, plain and simple- nothing advocated by Jesus in New Testament law is evil in any way- even people who don't believe the bible is God inspired are generally smart enough to realize that. To argue that it came from a source of evil is to argue that killing someone is good, and not killing them, and forgiving them for actions they took that crossed you, well, that's bad. You should kill. Yeah, killing is the best option. Your name is WrongWay, and man you do a good job heading that exact direction. I applaud you.

Christians believe many people are and will be miserable for eternity. That comes from their belief that "God" says that's reality. Could it be "Satan" that is promoting this fear filled belief?

[Loismustdie 0]

Christians believe many people are and will be miserable for eternity. That comes from their belief that "God" says that's reality. Could it be "Satan" that is promoting this fear filled belief?

Please, please explain what the thought process is, why he would do this, how it benefits Satan and his work? This thread took a serious turn to I don't know what.

[zzz 0]

Please, please explain what the thought process is, why he would do this, how it benefits Satan and his work? This thread took a serious turn to I don't know what.

"Satan" would love to torture souls for all eternity. "God" gives "Satan" what he wants by giving "Satan" some of his children. Since when does a loving "God" promote fear and judgement?