Am I Right, Or The Floorman?

[mtdesmoines 2]

yea they screwed up, because the 12 isn't a full reraise.

Bingo.

[chrozzo 19]

nice, thanks for all the responses, appreciate it....i believe I have improved my game since anyways, and would definitely call given a similar situation todayif anyone cares...SB had Q5 of hearts and MP had AA, and river was a blank

[Incubus77546 0]

Shoulda asked to see the floormans boss. Then get him fired for being an idiot.

[SamC489 0]

at harrahs in st louis, half the bet leaves the betting open. so its ok to reraise. (in st louis)

[mtdesmoines 2]

I'm going to start bringing these rule books to the casinos with me and everytime a floorman gets it wrong, I'll open it to the page and throw the book in his face, then cash out....

Every casino pretty much has its OWN rule book. Good luck.

[navybuttons 16]

SB shouldn't have been able to reraise because the MP all-in didn't qualify as a raise (double the bet).Essentially they allowed the SB to raise himself. Bad call. Perhaps the dealer got confused by the limit 50% rule, which says that in limit, when the all-in is equivelant to 50% or more of the bet then it can be raised. (i.e. 10/20 game on the turn, player goes all-in for 15, that can be raised to 40)I made a couple of bad calls like this when I first started dealing as well.

QFT. unless the guy with 12 raised it to 32. but if he could only call 12 of the bet of twenty then it's a terrible ruling.if he could raise to 32 then the other raise all in is valid.

[GWCGWC 83]

push the flop next time instead of calling $20You want to see both cards if you're going to pay $20 for the turn; and you don't mind picking up the $26 either, if all fold

it's true, and I think Actuary would play it this way with his OWN money. not just yours.FWIW. I make up my own rules. It's tougher to do online, but you gotta put your foot down and make the powers that be understand that you arn't to be triffled with.

[dms26 3]

it's true, and I think Actuary would play it this way with his OWN money. not just yours.FWIW. I make up my own rules. It's tougher to do online, but you gotta put your foot down and make the powers that be understand that you arn't to be triffled with.

now I know how you keep making DS final tables

[solo319 0]

yea they screwed up, because the 12 isn't a full reraise.

It doesnt matter as long as the reraise is at least half of the original raise then it can be reraised.Ive run into this situation playing 2/5 NL at the argosy its a uniform rule.

[showstopper24 0]

sounds like you were beat anyways.

[chrozzo 19]

sounds like you were beat anyways.

i was on the flop, he flopped flush

[TheCorporation3 0]

Ok, this happened in July and i am now just getting to posting it. I ma not completely sure regarding the poker room rules on this subject. I have been in and out of poker rooms for 3 years now and feel I know most precedures quite well. I was at Harrahs casino in Vegas. PLaying some 1/2 NL, full ring game. I had been there for about 45 min and up to 250 from 100 buy-in. in this hand SB has about 70 and MP has 32. I am in BB with K 9 . No raises and I check for the flop. Flop comes A 9 J , so I have bottom pair with nice draw. SB bets out 20, I call 20 and and MP goes all in for 12 more on top of 20. At that point the SB reraises all in as well for another 45 or so. I mention to the dealer I thought he could not raise again after the MP raised only 12 into his initial bet., and I certainly did not want to chase that for another 45 bucks.I ask that the floorman come over to verify, she called him over and he said the bet stands, even though he had not yet put it into the middle (he only put the 12 in and also announced the raise). Anyways, the floorman let him put his remaining chips in and I folded, only to have a fourth heart come on the turn, lol.Was I wrong in my call, or did Harrah's have it right?Thanks

The floor was incorrect, but why did you lay down the nut draw for only $52 more?

the cardroom i play at has a rule that the raise only has to be half of the previous raise in order for you to raise. as in...i bet 10, another guy goes all in for 16...a third guy calls the 16...i can reraise to any amount that i want. i know that this is not all that common, but that may be the rules that were in play at this place.Jesse

That rule works at my casino as far as a limit game goes, but not a NL game.

[13CARDS 0]

First, a summary:SB bets $20.OP CALLS the $20.MP raises All In for $32 total ($20 +$12).SB re-raises for another $45 or so.The question, Can SB re-raise in this situation?DEFINITIVE ANSWER......NO!Explanation:1. Ignore all you know (think you know?) about any and all 50% rules.2. Ask yourself this "Who is the SB raising?" The SB is trying to re-raise the OP, not the MP raiser!! MP has no more money, you cannot raise someone that has no more money. Also, you cannot raise someone that has only called you. Would you allow this scenario: SB bets $20. OP CALLS the $20 SB now raises to $65 total?!?!?!?Of course not!!!Summation:You were right, for the wrong reasons.The floorman made the wrong ruling. You should discuss this with the management at Harrah's. It is important that all floormen are trained properly and apply the rulings correctly and consistently.All of the posters in this thread need to re-read rules. I cannot believe this many people posted and not one explained the ruling properly.BEGIN FLAMES......

[navybuttons 16]

First, a summary:SB bets $20.OP CALLS the $20.MP raises All In for $32 total ($20 +$12).SB re-raises for another $45 or so.The question, Can SB re-raise in this situation?DEFINITIVE ANSWER......NO!Explanation:1. Ignore all you know (think you know?) about any and all 50% rules.2. Ask yourself this "Who is the SB raising?" The SB is trying to re-raise the OP, not the MP raiser!! MP has no more money, you cannot raise someone that has no more money. Also, you cannot raise someone that has only called you. Would you allow this scenario: SB bets $20. OP CALLS the $20 SB now raises to $65 total?!?!?!?Of course not!!!Summation:You were right, for the wrong reasons.The floorman made the wrong ruling. You should discuss this with the management at Harrah's. It is important that all floormen are trained properly and apply the rulings correctly and consistently.All of the posters in this thread need to re-read rules. I cannot believe this many people posted and not one explained the ruling properly.BEGIN FLAMES......

oh now i see.yes sir, you are correct but only because you used so many fonts/colors etc. If you hadn't i wouldn't recant the correct answer but because you did, i do.

[Actuary 3]

oh now i see.yes sir, you are correct but only because you used so many fonts/colors etc. If you hadn't i wouldn't recant the correct answer but because you did, i do.

"Who you are speaks so loudly, I can hardly hear what you are saying"that is to say, with no fonts, I'm ignoring your posts NavyButtons

[MaryWithoutSound 0]

..that was incorrect, btw. "Who's he raising?! The guy has no more money left!" WTF? It's three handed, butt sniffer. They play sidepots sometimes in poker. My god..What is this guy talking about?

[mcpickl 0]

First, a summary:SB bets $20.OP CALLS the $20.MP raises All In for $32 total ($20 +$12).SB re-raises for another $45 or so.The question, Can SB re-raise in this situation?DEFINITIVE ANSWER......NO!Explanation:1. Ignore all you know (think you know?) about any and all 50% rules.2. Ask yourself this "Who is the SB raising?" The SB is trying to re-raise the OP, not the MP raiser!! MP has no more money, you cannot raise someone that has no more money. Also, you cannot raise someone that has only called you. Would you allow this scenario: SB bets $20. OP CALLS the $20 SB now raises to $65 total?!?!?!?Of course not!!!Summation:You were right, for the wrong reasons.The floorman made the wrong ruling. You should discuss this with the management at Harrah's. It is important that all floormen are trained properly and apply the rulings correctly and consistently.All of the posters in this thread need to re-read rules. I cannot believe this many people posted and not one explained the ruling properly.BEGIN FLAMES......

so by your logic if the first raiser raised to $20, got called, a third player goes allin for $10000, if the first raiser has a million in front of him as does the caller, he can't reraise because the allin player has only ten grand? he can only call the 10K?

[13CARDS 0]

so by your logic if the first raiser raised to $20, got called, a third player goes allin for $10000, if the first raiser has a million in front of him as does the caller, he can't reraise because the allin player has only ten grand? he can only call the 10K?

First, I think that this is a totally different situation. I don't think anyone would be confused or disagree that, in your example, the third player clearly raised!Second, in the original scenario, MP clearly did not raise.

[MaryWithoutSound 0]

First, I think that this is a totally different situation. I don't think anyone would be confused or disagree that, in your example, the third player clearly raised!Second, in the original scenario, MP clearly did not raise.

What part of 'MP pushes all in..' were you confused by?

[simo_8ball 1]

in the original scenario, MP clearly did not raise.

Please explain. You told us to forget everything we know about 50% rules.

[13CARDS 0]

What part of 'MP pushes all in..' were you confused by?

Let's go s-l-o-w-l-y...1. SB bets out $20. (ALLOWED)2. OP calles $20. (ALLOWED)3. 'MP pushes all in' for $32 (THIS IS NOT A RAISE!)4. SB raises All In (NOT ALLOWED) Think of it like this, if MP pushed out $32 and did NOT declare/verbal anything, would it be a CALL or a RAISE? It is obviously not a raise. And since OP only called the SB, the SB can call the $32 or fold. The option to raise does not open to him again just because it is an All In situation.

[MaryWithoutSound 0]

Let's go s-l-o-w-l-y...1. SB bets out $20. (ALLOWED)2. OP calles $20. (ALLOWED)3. 'MP pushes all in' for $32 (THIS IS NOT A RAISE AT THE CARD ROOM WHERE I WAS A FLOOR MANAGER!!)4. SB raises All In (NOT ALLOWED) Think of it like this, if MP pushed out $32 and did NOT declare/verbal anything, would it be a CALL or a RAISE? It is obviously not a raise. And since OP only called the SB, the SB can call the $32 or fold. The option to raise does not open to him again just because it is an All In situation.

Dude..seriously.This wouldn't re-open the betting at my B&M either, okay? I get it. But the fact is, A LOT of card rooms use the >50% rule for NL and Limit. Okay? Just get that through your head. House rules are house rules..just because the place you were a floorman chose not to use that rule, doesn't mean other card rooms don't. Now do you get why you've looked like such an incorragible ass?

[Ecclesbury 0]

Let's go s-l-o-w-l-y...1. SB bets out $20. (ALLOWED)2. OP calles $20. (ALLOWED)3. 'MP pushes all in' for $32 (THIS IS NOT A RAISE!)4. SB raises All In (NOT ALLOWED) Think of it like this, if MP pushed out $32 and did NOT declare/verbal anything, would it be a CALL or a RAISE? It is obviously not a raise. And since OP only called the SB, the SB can call the $32 or fold. The option to raise does not open to him again just because it is an All In situation.

EDIT: Sorry, brain fart.

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

MP did not make full raise. Therefore, the bet did not reopen the betting for a raise to the original better:"In no-limit and pot limit, less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who already has acted" is the applicable rule.