2005-06 Calder Memorial Trophy

[goose 0]

ALEXANDER STEEN BITCHES

[Vertigo 0]

Wow, just wow! You listed players that spent time with the Penguins as support that Crosby had more talent surrounding him. I was pointing out that there is a difference between someone's potential talent and their actual production. I was not saying it had anything to do with picking a rookie of the year.I didn't say his production increased "because" they left; I said it increased "when" they left. Do you even read the posts?

Crosby has a lot of potential talent. That is obvious. His production was also positively influenced by his supporting cast. There is nothing to argue there. Ovechkin also has a lot of potential talent. I'm guessing if he had a better supporting cast, his production might have increased. That is all I'm trying to say. Is that an incredibly flawed statement? Sometimes I don't think you read my posts. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you everytime I say something. I'm just stating observations I've made throughout the season. You are just being an ******* and trying to make anything I say seem ridiculous. I don't care if you have 6000 posts. That doesn't make you 100% right about everything and everyone else's opinions invalid. Why does this have to turn into a pissing contest? Can't we just have a discussion?

[digitalmonkey 929]

Crosby has a lot of potential talent. That is obvious. His production was also positively influenced by his supporting cast. There is nothing to argue there. Ovechkin also has a lot of potential talent. I'm guessing if he had a better supporting cast, his production might have increased. That is all I'm trying to say. Is that an incredibly flawed statement? Sometimes I don't think you read my posts. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you everytime I say something. I'm just stating observations I've made throughout the season. You are just being an ******* and trying to make anything I say seem ridiculous. I don't care if you have 6000 posts. That doesn't make you 100% right about everything and everyone else's opinions invalid. Why does this have to turn into a pissing contest? Can't we just have a discussion?

You are still misinterpreting my comment regarding potential vs production.And yes we can have a discussion, but I'm not sure why you feel the need to result to namecalling and I fail to see the relevence of my post count.

[Vertigo 0]

You are still misinterpreting my comment regarding potential vs production.And yes we can have a discussion, but I'm not sure why you feel the need to result to namecalling and I fail to see the relevence of my post count.

Ok well please clarify it then. I'm just not sure exactly what you are trying to say. As for the name calling, well you said my logic was dumb. That was the first insult thrown if I can recall correctly. And as for the post count, well it just seems that people with a high amount of posts can say whatever they want and are always right and everyone else is wrong and stupid.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Has to be Ovechkin. Using age as a factor is totally unfair. Since Makarov won the rookie of the year award in his late 20's there was an age limit put into place, I believe 27? Anyway, all players under 27 should be treated equally when it comes to the rookie award.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Ok well please clarify it then. I'm just not sure exactly what you are trying to say. As for the name calling, well you said my logic was dumb. That was the first insult thrown if I can recall correctly. And as for the post count, well it just seems that people with a high amount of posts can say whatever they want and are always right and everyone else is wrong and stupid.

Calling your logic dumb is not the same as calling you dumb!My point about potential vs production was in response to your claim that the talent of Palffy, Lemieux, etc helped Crosby more than the talent on Washington helped Ovechkin. Having talent is one thing (potential) but putting the talent to use (production) is another.

[gilbertology 0]

Ovechkin had such a better season than Cosby you can't even compare them. He is a top 5 player starting next year and ending in 2020. Long live Alex Ovechkin and Olie the Goalie!

[digitalmonkey 929]

Ovechkin had such a better season than Cosby you can't even compare them.

[nell789 0]

Ovechkin had such a better season than Cosby you can't even compare them.

Do you even follow hockey?

[Vertigo 0]

Calling your logic dumb is not the same as calling you dumb!My point about potential vs production was in response to your claim that the talent of Palffy, Lemieux, etc helped Crosby more than the talent on Washington helped Ovechkin. Having talent is one thing (potential) but putting the talent to use (production) is another.

I guess so...but it still felt like an insult. You are right, I guess Lemieux, Palffy, Recchi etc. are past their prime. But still, they are all effective players. And definitely better than most of the Caps. I still feel they definitely gave Crosby a boost. And yes Ovechkin is a bit of a one man show, which I don't necessarily agree with. But so was Pavel Bure and I loved that guy. P.S. Thanks for the support DN!

[dEv~ 19]

I guess so...but it still felt like an insult. You are right, I guess Lemieux, Palffy, Recchi etc. are past their prime. But still, they are all effective players. And definitely better than most of the Caps. I still feel they definitely gave Crosby a boost. And yes Ovechkin is a bit of a one man show, which I don't necessarily agree with. But so was Pavel Bure and I loved that guy. P.S. Thanks for the support DN!

a bit?!?!? He took 425 shots which was 17% of his teams shots and no one else on his team took even close to half that many. Crosby had 9 more assists and he only managed to take 278 or 12% of his teams shots.Both players are amazingly talented but Crosby is definetly the better team player and this season showed that.

[Vertigo 0]

a bit?!?!? He took 425 shots which was 17% of his teams shots and no one else on his team took even close to half that many. Crosby had 9 more assists and he only managed to take 278 or 12% of his teams shots.Both players are amazingly talented but Crosby is definetly the better team player and this season showed that.

What's your point? You have to shoot to score goals. This isn't the "Best Rookie Team Player/Passer" award. And as mentioned before, they are also completely different types of players. Ovechkin is like a Pavel Bure-type show-off sniper, which is good for the game because people love to see that. Crosby is more of a hardworking set up man, but can also score goals. Lots of good players like him too. Don't get me wrong, they are both great. But I still think Ovechi had a better season.

[FCP Bob 1,323]

a bit?!?!? He took 425 shots which was 17% of his teams shots and no one else on his team took even close to half that many. Crosby had 9 more assists and he only managed to take 278 or 12% of his teams shots.Both players are amazingly talented but Crosby is definetly the better team player and this season showed that.

Wow, the better team player. What a totally flawed statement.Crosby is the better passer no doubt and has unique vision as a playmaker. He's also disliked by most of his teammates as a selfish whiney immature young man. The better "team" player is the one whose teammates will go through a wall for and that isn't Crosby.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Wow, the better team player. What a totally flawed statement.Crosby is the better passer no doubt and has unique vision as a playmaker. He's also disliked by most of his teammates as a selfish whiney immature young man. The better "team" player is the one whose teammates will go through a wall for and that isn't Crosby.

Cut out the BS Bob! Ovechkin sucks and you know it. The Big M's should unload him to the Canadian Gothic immediately.

[Zach6668 513]

Wow, the better team player. What a totally flawed statement.Crosby is the better passer no doubt and has unique vision as a playmaker. He's also disliked by most of his teammates as a selfish whiney immature young man. The better "team" player is the one whose teammates will go through a wall for and that isn't Crosby.

No.

[digitalmonkey 929]

No.

I won't say "most" of his teamates and I'm not sure if there is still a problem, but some of his teamates were not fond of him earlier in the season. It's understandable as their potential jealousy coupled with his immaturity and the pressures that have been placed on him could lead to problems. I don't see how this has anything to do with the Calder as these types of rumours are always floating around and people will choose to believe what they want.

[gruven 530]

These aren't rumours, DM, these are facts. He is STRONGLY disliked by more than a few of his teammates. HOWEVER, not for one second should this interfere with his status as a Calder candidate. If he was deserving of the Calder, he will win it. Unfortunately, in most seasons he would run away with it. This season, the almost uniform consensus is that Ovechkin was better. But again, you're comparing two guys so close in skill that even Ovechkin's obvious lead wouldnt be considered a massive difference in ability. And lucky us as fans..... Now, leave me alone, I have to write a story on jersey sales post lockout and it's wicked interesting so I'm going to.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[dEv~ 19]

These aren't rumours, DM, these are facts. He is STRONGLY disliked by more than a few of his teammates.

Ya i don't see how you can pawn this off as fact when I have never heard anything close to the sort here in Pittsburgh and I follow them pretty closely. Maybe I don't get the kind of "inside" info you get but I'm sure I would have heard something somewhere other then this forum.I can see this happening though with the older players but that kind of stuff goes away when you have a winning team. I don't think I'm going out on the limb saying the Pens will be a playoff team next year and with one year under his belt I see Sid taking plenty of steps forward in the maturity department.

[gruven 530]

Ya i don't see how you can pawn this off as fact when I have never heard anything close to the sort here in Pittsburgh and I follow them pretty closely. Maybe I don't get the kind of "inside" info you get but I'm sure I would have heard something somewhere other then this forum.I can see this happening though with the older players but that kind of stuff goes away when you have a winning team. I don't think I'm going out on the limb saying the Pens will be a playoff team next year and with one year under his belt I see Sid taking plenty of steps forward in the maturity department.

If something I hear is a rumour, I will always let it be known that it's rumour of some kind. However, this little tidbit was from Pens players (who are friends) to me. Not secondhand at all. And with several examples of Sid behaving in a manner that is less than endearing. That being said, the kid is an 18 year old multi millionaire, so being a **** would be hard to avoid. I, too, hope he matures and becomes the kind of ambassador for the game that befits someone of his talent and potential. And one thing to remember: when you want to know something about a team that's negative, the last place to go is the local media. These guys have to make a living talking to players on that team, so most of them are very reluctant to slag them in print or on tv. I've sat in the press box many a night listening to writers going off about various Leaf players, and read their filed stories the next day to find no such opinion in print.