Calling Raises With Small Pocket Pairs In Full Ring Games

[MikeBauer26 0]

This relates to the “Who folds this” Thread. Acid Knight said something like “At these stakes, people call with low pocket pairs all day long and do not realize how much money they lose”. This is inline with the books that tell you to “not call with anything less then pocket 9s”. I am questioning “why”? (Like I did with the don't fold KK preflop rule). I gladly play by the books and follow the advice of winning players. Still most players seem eager to get all their chips in with Aces or Kings on a 257 rainbow Flop, even more eager so on a 257 two to the flush flop. So why won’t we call with 55 in position? (Asumming raise is about 5 BB and both players have a stack of 100 BB)Some ideas:- Do People stop going broke with overpairs at higher stakes?- Do we want to reduce costly set over set incidents?- Do we make this read or stat dependent? (So that whe would call if stats suggest player is fish wo only raises AA KK and QQ) But fold if player raises about 8% preflop?)Share your wisdom :-)

[simo_8ball 1]

"lower limit players call reraises with pairs all day long, not knowing how much $$ they're losing doing it." - Acid_KnightKey thing being REraises. They will call off 15% of their stack looking to flop a set. You need over 12:1 implied odds to safely set mine.I will call a standard raise in position with small pairs usually, and I'll often 3-bet if it's a late position raise.

[Acid_Knight 2]

"lower limit players call reraises with pairs all day long, not knowing how much $$ they're losing doing it." - Acid_KnightKey thing being REraises. They will call off 15% of their stack looking to flop a set. You need over 12:1 implied odds to safely set mine.I will call a standard raise in position with small pairs usually, and I'll often 3-bet if it's a late position raise.

Yeah, what he said.It's all about implied odds.

[MikeBauer26 0]

Ok.Thanks for clearing that up.One more question.What is our aim when we occasionaly reraise with pocket 5s in position? Isolation?Represent Aces or Kings?To force opponents to define their hands or give them up straight away?Is this a good play against by the book players?Say the whole table has 100 BB. A tight by the book player raises 3 BB. We make it 10 with pocket 5s. If he reraises to 30BB we can do nothing but throw them 5s away. So what was our plan when reraising?

[Acid_Knight 2]

Ok.Thanks for clearing that up.One more question.What is our aim when we occasionaly reraise with pocket 5s in position? Isolation?Represent Aces or Kings?To force opponents to define their hands or give them up straight away?Is this a good play against by the book players?Say the whole table has 100 BB. A tight by the book player raises 3 BB. We make it 10 with pocket 5s. If he reraises to 30BB we can do nothing but throw them 5s away. So what was our plan when reraising?

1. Don't make a habit of reraising tight players.2. Yes, you throw it away if he 4-bets you.3. The point of reraising these hands is because we have position, our opponents will mostly miss flops and we can still make a big hand and win. Also, it makes it hard for them to put us on AK/AA/KK when we reraise if we're 3 betting them with 55 occasionally.

[CobaltBlue 662]

You need over 12:1 implied odds to safely set mine.

I think I'll call with as low as 10-1. Leak?

[cwik 0]

I think I'll call with as low as 10-1. Leak?

I here 10-1 all the time as a starting point, and imo people still are not stacking off that light after 3betting, and personally think you need greater implied odds for a call.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I here 10-1 all the time as a starting point, and imo people still are not stacking off that light after 3betting, and personally think you need greater implied odds for a call.

Yes, but if I think I'm significantly better than my opponent, winning some times when I don't make a set, and not RIOing myself, then I think I get more leeway.

[simo_8ball 1]

Set mining alone needs 12:1 implied if you have 55 against Aces that open shoves EVERY flop.How often do you stack AK when you flop a set? You require him to flop TPTK basically (and there are only two flop cards left for him to hit on).How often do you stack QQ on a K or A high flop? Not often.If you are playing set or fold, I think that even against a range of JJ+,AK you need at least 16:1 implied.The one thing to note is this though - if you can sometimes win without hitting a set, your implied odds for hitting a set decrease (you don't always get paid off). That said, your increased fold equity postflop can often make up for this.

[ROBBBIGG 0]

When calling a raise with a pocket pair, I'd like our effective stack sizes to be 20 times villain's bet because: A. We don't always hit our set. B. Villain doesn't always stack off when we hit our set. C. Sometimes we lose when we hit our set AND villain will stack off.

[HijackedAffairs 0]

On the other hand ROBBIGG, we will sometimes win the hand without hitting a set.