Worst/best Fans In Baseball

[Mercury69 3]

Babe Ruth: It could be argued he was the best "natural" ballplayer ever. I mean, who the hell goes from being a stellar pitcher to changing the entire game around by smashing HR's at an unheard of rate in the deadball era? Best ever of all-time? Sure, I'll bite...Johnny Damon: **** Johnny Damon. He was good with the Red Sox, but he had a horrible mullet. Then he signs with the Yankees? Hillbilly, puh-leeze...Barry Bonds: OK, I loved this guy when he was with the Pirates. Then his ego got bigger than Jupiter and then he started crushing HR's and apologists said it was the maturation process, off season wirkouts and his terrific hand/eye. Then his neck completely disappeared, like Sammy Sosa's. And he was mouthy and irritable with the press, turning into one of the biggest a-holes ever in MLB. ****l you, Barry. Your dad has more class in his scrotum...

[JoeyJoJo 18]

This is how I judge players (and, by extension, how everyone should do it): how does he compare against his peers? Babe Ruth was so far and away better than anyone he played against, it's silly. He hit more home runs than entire teams. Not just some teams. Every single team.

Not to mention Ruth never had to fly cross-country, play at night, or deal with the era of video review and specialization.

Such miniscule points that it's not even worth mentioning. In my opinion. But I'd rather fly cross country in a private jet than take the train to the next state.By the way, I've always been a huge Barry Bonds supporter.

[CaneBrain 95]

Such miniscule points that it's not even worth mentioning. In my opinion.

Imo, that's crazy talk especially the video review and relief pitcher part. The night games and travel are much more miniscule. Getting to see the same pitcher all 9 innings most of the time is not.

[timwakefield 68]

Video review and personal trainers and hitting coaches and all that helps the hitters too!

[timwakefield 68]

Getting to see the same pitcher all 9 innings most of the time is not.

The idea that pitchers used to finish every game they started is sort of a myth. Maybe around 1900 it was true, but by Ruth's time it was far from uncommon for a relief pitcher to come in. Certainly there wasn't a whole bullpen full of them, specialized in different ways and preparing all year for high-pressure, tense situations. More likely it was your least-tired guy coming in to try to stop the bleeding in a still-winnable game, but relievers were definitely used. Look up some stats during the Ruth years of pitchers and how many complete games pitchers were throwing vs how many games they were starting. You'll see a large number of incomplete games.Edit: Randomly, the 1928 Yankees 5 main starters, complete games vs games started: 22 of 38, 19 of 31, 18 of 24, 10 of 22, and 3 of 12. Red Sox the same year: 25 of 34, 20 of 29, 10 of 26, 9 of 28, and 4 of 15. So it looks like about 50/50, from that admittedly small but random sample.Nerdy math edit: from that sample, 54% of games were complete games.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Plus, the vast majority of today's relievers are worse than the starters. Otherwise they'd be starters. So I think it balances itself out anyway. I haven't seen any studies comparing eras on late inning performance.

[CaneBrain 95]

Plus, the vast majority of today's relievers are worse than the starters. Otherwise they'd be starters. So I think it balances itself out anyway. I haven't seen any studies comparing eras on late inning performance.

Something for Bill James to look at. I am just pointing out some things. I think Ruth is far and away the #1 (since he was also a pitcher....that's kind of an argument ender, imo) but I feel like because of steroids it gets downplayed exactly how scary-good Bonds was for about 2.5 years. When it is a surprise when a guy makes an out, that is pretty amazing.

[Mercury69 3]

Kind of got off-topic, in a worthwhile way, but here's what I was going to say:Montreal Expos fans: I know the franchise moved to DC back in 2005, but Expos fans were often the most apathetic bunch of bandwagoneering assholes ever. I remeber the Expos going on a West coast raod trip and winning 12 of 15 or something like that, which put them back into a pennant race. Fans came out 30K strong for maybe two or three games and then it dwindled back to the usual 12-14K. Pathetic...Their front office was a bunch of fukkos, too, which didn't help.On a related note, The Expos hold the record for the earliest no-hitter by a franchise. Bill Stoneman tossed one against the Phillies 10 days into the Expos first season.

[king_tanner 84]

By the way, I've always been a huge Barry Bonds supporter.

Really? Why? Unless if you are a Giants fan.Aside from all the steroid stuff, the guy is like the biggest dick ever.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Really? Why? Unless if you are a Giants fan.Aside from all the steroid stuff, the guy is like the biggest dick ever.

I'm actually a Dodgers fan, but I just really don't care what people are like off the field. What I meant by supporter is that I was able to recognize that he was a top 3 player of all-time and was completely awed by his performance.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

Really? Why? Unless if you are a Giants fan.Aside from all the steroid stuff, the guy is like the biggest dick ever.

so if bonds was a sweetheart you would like him? who cares how he was off the field. he is one of if not the greatest player to ever play. its like hating on tiger because of his off the course stuff. you should appreciate a great player for his abilitiets, not his attitude off the field. thats a narrow minded view.

[El Guapo 8]

Such miniscule points that it's not even worth mentioning. In my opinion. But I'd rather fly cross country in a private jet than take the train to the next state.

Hmmm, would I rather fly 5 hours across country on this:or spend 6-8 hours on this to go a couple hundred miles:

[timwakefield 68]

To be fair, only minor leaguers and negro leaguers took buses. I mean, obviously it sucks that there even was a negro league (rather than an integrated major leagues) but if we're just comparing major leaguers, I think they mostly took trains. The team probably had at least a car to themselves, good food probably, all that. Just sayin, Babe wasn't exactly stuck on a rotten bus all day.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

To be fair, only minor leaguers and negro leaguers took buses. I mean, obviously it sucks that there even was a negro league (rather than an integrated major leagues) but if we're just comparing major leaguers, I think they mostly took trains. The team probably had at least a car to themselves, good food probably, all that. Just sayin, Babe wasn't exactly stuck on a rotten bus all day.

I dunno, many of hte owners from that era were extremely cheap. Maybe not the yankee's owner tho.

[timwakefield 68]

That's true, Charles Comiskey's cheapness was apparently one of the motivating factors in the White Sox throwing the world series.

[El Guapo 8]

Pretty sure they did not have a train that went directly to each stadium. Probably had to be on a bus every once in awhile.

[king_tanner 84]

so if bonds was a sweetheart you would like him? who cares how he was off the field. he is one of if not the greatest player to ever play. its like hating on tiger because of his off the course stuff. you should appreciate a great player for his abilitiets, not his attitude off the field. thats a narrow minded view.

My narrow mindedness comes from him being a complete steroid FREAK, not his personality. His personality is just another reason not to like him. How can you compare him with the greats when he was a complete cheat in his glory years. Yeah yeah he was good before he took steroids, but he made the leap into superstardom because of steroids. All you can compare him with is other players who took steroids. I'll agree that he is the greatest steroid using baseball player of all time, I refuse to call him one of the greats though.If he is one of the greats, Sammy Sosa is one of the greats, AROD!!! Mark McIhavenoneckgwire GREAT! Oh and Rafael Palmeiro... he is the ****ing man. Clemens GREAT. All cheats. If these players are great, why not put Jose Canseco in the hall of fame? Other players cheated in other eras, but not on the level that these guys did.

[timwakefield 68]

If he is one of the greats, Sammy Sosa is one of the greats, AROD!!! Mark McIhavenoneckgwire GREAT! Oh and Rafael Palmeiro... he is the ****ing man. Clemens GREAT. All cheats. If these players are great, why not put Jose Canseco in the hall of fame? Other players cheated in other eras, but not on the level that these guys did.

Yup, Mark McGwire is about on par with Mickey Mantle, Manny Ramirez is as great as Jimmie Foxx or Lou Gehrig, Jason Giambi is up there with Yaz, and Gary Sheffield was clearly as good as Stan Musial. Except not.

[CaneBrain 95]

My narrow mindedness comes from him being a complete steroid FREAK, not his personality. His personality is just another reason not to like him. How can you compare him with the greats when he was a complete cheat in his glory years. Yeah yeah he was good before he took steroids, but he made the leap into superstardom because of steroids. All you can compare him with is other players who took steroids. I'll agree that he is the greatest steroid using baseball player of all time, I refuse to call him one of the greats though.If he is one of the greats, Sammy Sosa is one of the greats, AROD!!! Mark McIhavenoneckgwire GREAT! Oh and Rafael Palmeiro... he is the ****ing man. Clemens GREAT. All cheats. If these players are great, why not put Jose Canseco in the hall of fame? Other players cheated in other eras, but not on the level that these guys did.

The bolded is false and Bonds was a superstar well before his head grew six sizes. Other than that I totally agree.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

If he is one of the greats, Sammy Sosa is one of the greats, AROD!!! Mark McIhavenoneckgwire GREAT! Oh and Rafael Palmeiro... he is the ****ing man. Clemens GREAT. All cheats. If these players are great, why not put Jose Canseco in the hall of fame? Other players cheated in other eras, but not on the level that these guys did.

LOL @ level of cheating. The reason they didn't cheat to that level, is they didn't have the opportunity to. JFC people are so irrational about steriod use.

[CaneBrain 95]

LOL @ level of cheating. The reason they didn't cheat to that level, is they didn't have the opportunity to. JFC people are so irrational about steriod use.

Gaylord Perry wrote a book about how much he cheated......for whatever reason steroids bother people so much more than greenies, spitballs, and everything else.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Gaylord Perry wrote a book about how much he cheated......for whatever reason steroids bother people so much more than greenies, spitballs, and everything else.

I've had that debate 1000 times. I think It's a farce that Gaylord is in the hall of fame, and his brand of cheating is deemed lovable, but bonds is the anti christ. You think a guy who went to such extreme lengths to cheat and hide his cheating would have thought twice about taking a pill that made him a better ball player? GTFO.

[king_tanner 84]

LOL @ level of cheating. The reason they didn't cheat to that level, is they didn't have the opportunity to. JFC people are so irrational about steriod use.

I agree, players in different eras would have used steroids if they could have, but they didn't. Steroid users should only be compared to other steroid users. There is no other way of cheating in baseball that gives players more of an advantage than steroids imo.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I agree, players in different eras would have used steroids if they could have, but they didn't. Steroid users should only be compared to other steroid users. There is no other way of cheating in baseball that gives players more of an advantage than steroids imo.

So what? It's the cheating that matters, it's the cheating that is the immoral act. It doesn't matter if one man's form of cheating is more effective. It's the premeditated nature of cheating that is is either right, or wrong, not the success rate of the style of cheating.

[timwakefield 68]

So what? It's the cheating that matters, it's the cheating that is the immoral act. It doesn't matter if one man's form of cheating is more effective. It's the premeditated nature of cheating that is is either right, or wrong, not the success rate of the style of cheating.

Why do you say that? That seems to be entirely a matter of opinion, which is fine, but it sounds like you think it's a hard fact. I believe completely the opposite - that although "cheating" necessitates the breaking of a rule, some forms of cheating alter the game more than others do. Throwing a game or a series, for example, would be the worst form of cheating. The fact is, none of those old-tyme guys did do steroids, and discussing whether or not they would have is pointless.

for whatever reason steroids bother people so much more than greenies, spitballs, and everything else.

Anabolic steroids are much more powerful than greenies, by leaps and bounds. I don't think it's fair to compare the two - not only are they completely different drugs with completely different effects, but again one is drastically stronger than the other. Like comparing wine to heroin, they're just not comparable.