redonkulous 0 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 There are plenty of small stake grinders online that go to casinos and play 1/2-2/5, and maybe even take a few shots at 5/10 when the game is good enough. 1/2-5/10 online is much much much much more difficult to beat than a live game at those same levels. Some people don't have the proper roll to be playing those levels online, but are comfortable enough to take shots at a casino because the play is much worse. You just aren't going to go to a local casino and have 7 very good regulars at a table and trying to pray on 2 fish, it almost every case it's the exact opposite. Now you're going to tell me that a 3/6NL table online there are going to be 7 bad players and 2 regs? Get real. Even if they do have the roll they prefer the safer route and grind lower limits. The swings are less, you take less hits to your bankroll if you go on a downswing, and the good player-fish ratio is much better. Tournaments are a different story. No, I don't think a $3 online tournaments compares to a $500 live tournament. But I think a $26 or $50 f/o is pretty comparable to a $550 venetian.were not gonna agree lol...there are so many more players online and the ratio of good to bad players is pretty much the same online or live imo..so really there are more horrible players online just cause there is way more people playing at any given time....online you can pick an easy table where as in a casino you dont have anywhere near the choice...also online there are so many tools that you can use to get an edge... theres no way online is any harder than live at comparable limits Link to post Share on other sites
rbakken2504 0 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 are you kidding me? you really think the average micro player is better than the average live player who plays alot higher buyin tournaments....are u gonna also tell me that 10nl/25nl/50nl playes are on average better than 2/5 and 5/10 nl live players? and 1/2online limit players are on average better than 10/20 live players?This is actually very true especially in vegas.....id much rather play the 2/5 nl game at mgm than any 50 nl game online as the 50 nl is tougher. Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 I don't know what casino you're playing at, but you must either suck or have a high population of great players of where you live. Because every place I have played, or every place I have watched people play, there is maybe 1-2 other decent players at the table, and the rest are just awful.Go play some 2/4 online and see if there's the same ratio. The whole table might not be great, but there's a lot more players at the table that are semi-competent and have some understanding to the game. Link to post Share on other sites
rbakken2504 0 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 were not gonna agree lol...there are so many more players online and the ratio of good to bad players is pretty much the same online or live imo..so really there are more horrible players online just cause there is way more people playing at any given time....online you can pick an easy table where as in a casino you dont have anywhere near the choice...also online there are so many tools that you can use to get an edge... theres no way online is any harder than live at comparable limitsThis is part of the reason online is tougher, everybody has these tools, and personally these tools ruin the game IMO, you have to have these tools or youre at a huge disadvantage. You see more very good players at 50 nl online because they can 12-24 table them and make a similar, if not higher hourly rate than 2/5 live, with far less risk, variance, and bankroll requirements. I see maximum of two good players at the 2/5 nl game at any time..... Link to post Share on other sites
rbakken2504 0 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 I don't know what casino you're playing at, but you must either suck or have a high population of great players of where you live. Because every place I have played, or every place I have watched people play, there is maybe 1-2 other decent players at the table, and the rest are just awful.Go play some 2/4 online and see if there's the same ratio. The whole table might not be great, but there's a lot more players at the table that are semi-competent and have some understanding to the game.QFT +1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheTiburon 0 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 The MGM is one of the easiest games i've ever played in my life. It's a bunch of tourist that stopped by with "gamble money" and they have seen the game played on tv or they played at their friends uncles house game. Aside from that, I crushed a Carnival Cruise Line game at the 1-2 level for about 3 grand in 3 days too.Selecting the fish games live at the lower stakes are easier than online. This is actually very true especially in vegas.....id much rather play the 2/5 nl game at mgm than any 50 nl game online as the 50 nl is tougher. Link to post Share on other sites
TheTiburon 0 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 I second this! I was about to respond with the same information and saw this. This is part of the reason online is tougher, everybody has these tools, and personally these tools ruin the game IMO, you have to have these tools or youre at a huge disadvantage. You see more very good players at 50 nl online because they can 12-24 table them and make a similar, if not higher hourly rate than 2/5 live, with far less risk, variance, and bankroll requirements. I see maximum of two good players at the 2/5 nl game at any time..... Link to post Share on other sites
redonkulous 0 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 QFT +1i play online from time to time i dont play online enough to see a difference compared to live...i dont play micro so maybe micro players are much more advanced than 2/4 3/6 5/10 nl players ...vegas or any other place like that is full of people throwing there money away in fact every casino there are a lot of players doing that just like online....with all the tools it should be easier to find a good game online agaist trash oppents at micro levels...most players online dont use tools....anyone who cant beat micros cant beat 2/5 and 5/10 live Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 i play online from time to time i dont play online enough to see a difference compared to live...i dont play micro so maybe micro players are much more advanced than 2/4 3/6 5/10 nl players ...vegas or any other place like that is full of people throwing there money away in fact every casino there are a lot of players doing that just like online....with all the tools it should be easier to find a good game online agaist trash oppents at micro levels...most players online dont use tools....anyone who cant beat micros cant beat 2/5 and 5/10 live Right but that's not what you were saying. You were saying people who play micro stakes can't beat 2/5 live because if they can they would be playing higher limits online, and that's just a ridiculously false statement. Nobody is saying that the micro levels are full of great players. We are saying that the play level is pretty much the same at micro levels (say 25, 50NL) online, and 2/5 online (5/10 is a bit tougher). Link to post Share on other sites
CorvairShaggy 5 Posted August 18, 2010 Author Share Posted August 18, 2010 F' Me!! I did not know that a simple question was going to spark a huge debate!! Anyway, back to the original post, there was 38 or so players left. ITM was 18. Yes, this was a Turbo. My thinking was to flat the the raise, and hope to see flop. Any raise/shove from BB/SB I would have folded. If flop came no spades I fold. I basically was going in on looking for a 4 card flush draw, or hit the flush from the flop and jam either way. If villain was trying to steal and bet the flop, then jamming would have made him fold, or we would be racing. Yes, I was risking 1/5 of my chips, but my thinking was if I brick I still have 20k which was about average (little low) than the rest of the table, so I was thinking I could wait for that good of a hand or better in the next orbit or two, and hope to steal one or double up, which would have squeaked me ITM. As I am reading the first part of this thread, I see that this is wrong. Pretty much either jam this pre as an open, or jam against villain that I think is trying to steal (as I thought in this case). Fold this to a villain that I have a read on as a tight player. Don't try to float this and make it a drawing hand, as the odds are against me. Correct thought line now???As far as live versus online, 2 years ago I was at the IP in Biloxi. I took a $2k hit on $5 slots and crap table in about an hour. I heard them call for open seating on 1/2 NL, so I decided to go take a break. Back then I "thought" I knew how to play, but knowing what I know now, I was a complete donk. Anyway, I sat in with $200, and 1 1/2 hour later had to leave to go to dinner with the group I was with, and cashed out over $600. I actually caught a lady at one time mouthing as she was reading her cards and the board "5,6,7,8, uugh". This was on the river, and she made a small raise at the pot. I shit my pants and instantly re-raised her, and she folded. Don't ask what I had, because I had no clue. So yes, I would have to say in my small experience in live casinos (this trip with others here in the Southern USA) that online is much tougher than live. Just my .02 here. Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I'd be willing to prop bet some way that a winning 50nl online player could beat 2/5 over a good sample if you wanna put some money on it redonkedit: or vice-versa Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I'd be willing to prop bet some way that a winning 50nl online player could beat 2/5 over a good sample if you wanna put some money on it redonkedit: or vice-versai agree, the online player gets so much more volume, unless someone play 18 hours a day live, they just cant keep up in # hands played. someone who can beat 50nl playing 4 tables can crush any live 500nl player pretty much any day the week. 30 hands an hour and one table verse 4 tabling and winning at 50 rush nl or regular 50 ring games,... it isnt even close. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 live poker is LOOOOL bad Link to post Share on other sites
rbakken2504 0 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 F' Me!! I did not know that a simple question was going to spark a huge debate!! Anyway, back to the original post, there was 38 or so players left. ITM was 18. Yes, this was a Turbo. My thinking was to flat the the raise, and hope to see flop. Any raise/shove from BB/SB I would have folded. If flop came no spades I fold. I basically was going in on looking for a 4 card flush draw, or hit the flush from the flop and jam either way. If villain was trying to steal and bet the flop, then jamming would have made him fold, or we would be racing. Yes, I was risking 1/5 of my chips, but my thinking was if I brick I still have 20k which was about average (little low) than the rest of the table, so I was thinking I could wait for that good of a hand or better in the next orbit or two, and hope to steal one or double up, which would have squeaked me ITM. As I am reading the first part of this thread, I see that this is wrong. Pretty much either jam this pre as an open, or jam against villain that I think is trying to steal (as I thought in this case). Fold this to a villain that I have a read on as a tight player. Don't try to float this and make it a drawing hand, as the odds are against me. Correct thought line now???As far as live versus online, 2 years ago I was at the IP in Biloxi. I took a $2k hit on $5 slots and crap table in about an hour. I heard them call for open seating on 1/2 NL, so I decided to go take a break. Back then I "thought" I knew how to play, but knowing what I know now, I was a complete donk. Anyway, I sat in with $200, and 1 1/2 hour later had to leave to go to dinner with the group I was with, and cashed out over $600. I actually caught a lady at one time mouthing as she was reading her cards and the board "5,6,7,8, uugh". This was on the river, and she made a small raise at the pot. I shit my pants and instantly re-raised her, and she folded. Don't ask what I had, because I had no clue. So yes, I would have to say in my small experience in live casinos (this trip with others here in the Southern USA) that online is much tougher than live. Just my .02 here.Looks good to me Link to post Share on other sites
redonkulous 0 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I'd be willing to prop bet some way that a winning 50nl online player could beat 2/5 over a good sample if you wanna put some money on it redonkedit: or vice-versahow would we do something like that....i could be wrong i could be under estimating micro players big time....if im wrong id be happy to admit it Link to post Share on other sites
potatoman 0 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I don't know what casino you're playing at, but you must either suck or have a high population of great players of where you live. Because every place I have played, or every place I have watched people play, there is maybe 1-2 other decent players at the table, and the rest are just awful.Go play some 2/4 online and see if there's the same ratio. The whole table might not be great, but there's a lot more players at the table that are semi-competent and have some understanding to the game.Last time I played 1-2NL live three of the ten players could not read the board....It didn't seem to bother them but it did have an affect on their results... Live players are also more likely to be piss drunk or suicidal...which also negatively affects their play. At least one of the players that night was piss drunk, blind and suicidal...Live is also easier to beat, because you can sniff the table to get a sense of how saused everyone is before you take a seat. Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 how would we do something like that....i could be wrong i could be under estimating micro players big time....if im wrong id be happy to admit itI dunno, you could get a random live player and stick him in an online game and let him play 20k hands, or find a player who beats that limit and let them play like 4 days a week live for a month or something. Gonna be impossible to verify and kinda silly to ensure there's no cheating going on so I doubt it happens. Link to post Share on other sites
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