Wikileaks

[JoeyJoJo 18]

i think the number of people on earth who have this kind of passion for something even tangentially political who have no agenda is extrordinarily close to zero.

Probably. But if we're going to ask our politicians to do the right thing regardless of politics, we should ask the same of the political watchdogs.

[Jeepster80125 0]

beating a dead horse, etc.http://i.imgur.com/twrSH.jpgsomeone put this together to show how ridiculously dumb wikileaks was to spin the video the way they did. I repeat: this should have been about the coverup, not the media guys hanging out with insurgents who probably deserved what they had coming.

That seems pretty damning.I don't understand the last two photos though. Is the color photo from the point of view of the cameraguy looking around the corner, or is it showing how close the cameraguys were to the fighting?

[Balloon guy 158]

That was a lot of set up for the punch line.

I'm all about the set up

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

That seems pretty damning.I don't understand the last two photos though. Is the color photo from the point of view of the cameraguy looking around the corner, or is it showing how close the cameraguys were to the fighting?

I think it's both. The camera guys were extremely close to the fighting / militants without the proper garb / credentials. Think about that picture from the reverse angle. You're in the APC and you see a guy peek half his body around a building a block away and point something large and black at you in the middle of an active warzone.Is your first though "oh, hello friendly photographer" or "dear mr. helicopter, please kill the bad guy taking cover and pointing something large and dark at me, i dont' want to get shot at anymore today"?

[Jeepster80125 0]

I think it's both. The camera guys were extremely close to the fighting / militants without the proper garb / credentials. Think about that picture from the reverse angle. You're in the APC and you see a guy peek half his body around a building a block away and point something large and black at you in the middle of an active warzone.Is your first though "oh, hello friendly photographer" or "dear mr. helicopter, please kill the bad guy taking cover and pointing something large and dark at me, i dont' want to get shot at anymore today"?

I agree with you and strat, that the issue should be the military cover-up, not spinning this video. I am completely okay with considering this video as evidence of poor luck and the fog of war. The victims did nothing to help their situation.If I am getting shot at, I'll ask for forgiveness later, instead of permission first. I can understand the argument that you should be 100% before taking human life, but this isn't a vacuum, it's war.

[strategy 4]

I didn't get the last two pictures either.It seems clear to me that wikileaks went with the political spin to get recognition and funding. Without those two, you're not going to make much of a difference no matter how powerful your information is. There are examples of this, and I could look up a few more if pressed, but here's one: http://cryptome.org/

[Kenny Banya 0]

Yeah! What were those stupid Iraqi's doing trying to walk about THEIR country, in THEIR streets. Pffff, thinking they have the freedom to film and document what is going on...the nerve they have.Who cares if people were murdered in cold blood. Their skin is brown, and thus they have no rights.And why does Ballon guy still post here. I am embarrassed you three year ago about the economy.

[Balloon guy 158]

Yeah! What were those stupid Iraqi's doing trying to walk about THEIR country, in THEIR streets. Pffff, thinking they have the freedom to film and document what is going on...the nerve they have.Who cares if people were murdered in cold blood. Their skin is brown, and thus they have no rights.And why does Ballon guy still post here. I am embarrassed you three year ago about the economy.

Probably for the spelling lessons?

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Yeah! What were those stupid Iraqi's doing trying to walk about THEIR country, in THEIR streets.

RECON to find suitable buildings to set up new rape rooms.

[Kenny Banya 0]

Probably for the spelling lessons?

That all you have? A few spelling errors after I typed something up quick?If you're as good with words as you are on the economy...god help you.

[Kenny Banya 0]

RECON to find suitable buildings to set up new rape rooms.

Are you talking about the Iraqis or US soldiers?http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commen...0,5399612.storyedit: we both, of course, should not generalize...that is, your racist opinion that all Iraqis are rapists, and I am not saying all US soldiers are rapists

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Are you talking about the Iraqis or US soldiers?http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commen...0,5399612.storyedit: we both, of course, should not generalize...that is, your racist opinion that all Iraqis are rapists, and I am not saying all US soldiers are rapists

Of Course the Rape rooms went completly unchallanged until the were closed by the American Military. Any American soldier convicted of rape will be put in prison by the Military Justice System. No one will try to justify his actions. For example, " She deserved to be raped because I saw her bare ankle" will not be accepted as a defense. Of Course all Iraq's are not rapists, unfortunately they were unwilling on unable to put a stop to the rape and tourture rooms set up by the Iraqi govt. Thus the Amercan Military had to intervene. Don't get me wrong. I don't think America should have sacrificed what they have to help the Iraqis. I can only hope the Iraqis will take advantage of the oppurtunity they have now.

[Balloon guy 158]

That all you have? A few spelling errors after I typed something up quick?If you're as good with words as you are on the economy...god help you.

I guess I am outclassedDo me a favor though and remind me how you owned me about the economy, cause to be honest you didn't make enough impression for me to have the slightest clue who you are and or what you have ever said.

[strategy 4]

I guess I am outclassedDo me a favor though and remind me how you owned me about the economy, cause to be honest you didn't make enough impression for me to have the slightest clue who you are and or what you have ever said.

I think it's funny that a guy with 133 posts used two to reference pwning you previously.

[Balloon guy 158]

I think it's funny that a guy with 133 posts used two to reference pwning you previously.

Just goes to show you guys, who have wasted hundreds of posts to show me for the idiot I obviously am when whats his name can do it in only a few posts, that you guys are the real fools

[Jeepster80125 0]

The WikiLeaks Video: Reading the ReportPosted by Raffi Khatchadourian[...]The report notes that the gunner in the Apache “perceived an escalation of the immediate threat to our ground troops after observing an individual peering around a building, preparing to fire an RPG,” in this case at a Humvee that was about a block away. The individual appears to be Namir Noor-Eldeen, the Reuters photographer, and the perceived R.P.G. his telephoto lens. The findings note that soldiers in the Apache, “having observed a hostile act,” then “continued to transition for the attack.”These observations are in one sense confirmed by the video, but in another they are undermined by it. They omit that the Apache had been given the authority to shoot the men, and was maneuvering to do so before Noor-Eldeen was seen peering around the building. A more in-depth legal review might ask: What were the conditions on the ground that brought about the permission to fire in the first place? At that earlier point, the pilots saw a couple of men with “weapons”—in their words, AK-47s—ambling around with a large group of people. Was the authority to attack all of them at that time justified?[...]

from the comments:

"As far as I can tell, the military has not released the accompanying investigatory materials, such as the sworn statements of the soldiers involved or the battle damage assessment." You've overlooked various other documents that United States Central Command has released, including the sworn statements and a second investigation report by the 2nd Brigade Combat Team. The documents can be found at http://ur1.ca/ugix

That link takes you to a pretty scary looking Dept of Defense Notice and Consent Agreement.

[Kenny Banya 0]

I think it's funny that a guy with 133 posts used two to reference pwning you previously.

I mean, lol, it didn't really take all that many posts...

[jmkiser 0]

Weren't there ground troops nearby? Would it not make sense from a military perspective to eliminate any of these possible threats before they had a chance to pose danger to these ground troops?I admit that it was crazy watching them lay waste to those guys standing around, the van, and then to throw missiles into the building while people where just passing by. When I just watched the video first before knowing any of the facts, I was shocked (as I'm sure anyone would be who hasn't been in a war-time environment). I was wondering how they could just light up a bunch of random guys who were just standing around talking. Why the hell would they destroy a van of people who were just trying to pick them up? And how could they sleep the next day after lighting up a building with no consideration to people who were just passing by? And on a side note, WHO THE HELL WALKS BY A BUILDING THAT JUST BLEW UP?!Once the shock value subsided, I was able to consider the possibilities. Couldn't the helicopter be the protection for surrounding ground troops? As for the first possible RPG, if I was in that helicopter and saw someone inching around a corner adjusting something that's pointed at me, I'm not sure I would've been able to wait for permission before taking them down. It could also be well known that vans rushing in to pick up dead bodies and guns are enemies attempting to recover utilities used to continue the attack. The building was also close to the ground troops on scene and would provide great cover for enemies to sit back and pick off our guys. And how are guys in a helicopter going to provide help? Machine guns don't guarantee that you're going to eliminate enemies inside the building. A couple missiles sure will.Again, I certainly don't have any more facts then anyone else does, but based on the possibilities, my support certainly lean towards the actions taken by those in the helicopters.

[Kenny Banya 0]

Weren't there ground troops nearby? Would it not make sense from a military perspective to eliminate any of these possible threats before they had a chance to pose danger to these ground troops?I admit that it was crazy watching them lay waste to those guys standing around, the van, and then to throw missiles into the building while people where just passing by. When I just watched the video first before knowing any of the facts, I was shocked (as I'm sure anyone would be who hasn't been in a war-time environment). I was wondering how they could just light up a bunch of random guys who were just standing around talking. Why the hell would they destroy a van of people who were just trying to pick them up? And how could they sleep the next day after lighting up a building with no consideration to people who were just passing by? And on a side note, WHO THE HELL WALKS BY A BUILDING THAT JUST BLEW UP?!Once the shock value subsided, I was able to consider the possibilities. Couldn't the helicopter be the protection for surrounding ground troops? As for the first possible RPG, if I was in that helicopter and saw someone inching around a corner adjusting something that's pointed at me, I'm not sure I would've been able to wait for permission before taking them down. It could also be well known that vans rushing in to pick up dead bodies and guns are enemies attempting to recover utilities used to continue the attack. The building was also close to the ground troops on scene and would provide great cover for enemies to sit back and pick off our guys. And how are guys in a helicopter going to provide help? Machine guns don't guarantee that you're going to eliminate enemies inside the building. A couple missiles sure will.Again, I certainly don't have any more facts then anyone else does, but based on the possibilities, my support certainly lean towards the actions taken by those in the helicopters.

That is because you are on the same team as "those in the helicopters". If it was your family, friends, or neighbours, your support certainly would be different.I think you should just admit that there was no initial "shock" for you. Rather, it would just be against your nature to question anything "the troops" over there do, primarily because you know you would be partially to blame. You know your tax dollars are being put to work there, you have done nothing to end the war, they are essentially "fighting for your freedom". To admit their actions were wrong would be to accept the fact that it was your fault...and doing so wouldn't let you sleep at night. Rationalize all you want...doesn't change the fact that it was wrong, and you know it.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

To admit their actions were wrong would be to accept the fact that it was your fault.

JoeyJoJo: It's not your fault. jmkiser: I know... JoeyJoJo: No you don't. It's not your fault. jmkiser: [serious] I know. JoeyJoJo: No. Listen to me son. It's not your fault. jmkiser: I know that. JoeyJoJo: It's not your fault. [jmkiser is silent, eyes closed] JoeyJoJo: It's not your fault. jmkiser: [jmkiser's eyes open, misty already] Don't fuck with me Joey. Not you. JoeyJoJo: It's not your fault. [jmkiser shoves JoeyJoJo back, and then, hands trembling, buries his face in his hands. jmkiser begins sobbing. JoeyJoJo puts his hands on jmkiser's shoulders, and jmkiser grabs him and holds him close, crying] jmkiser: Oh my God! I'm so sorry! I'm so sorry Joey! [jmkiser continues sobbing in JoeyJoJo's arms]

[jmkiser 0]

That is because you are on the same team as "those in the helicopters". If it was your family, friends, or neighbours, your support certainly would be different.I think you should just admit that there was no initial "shock" for you. Rather, it would just be against your nature to question anything "the troops" over there do, primarily because you know you would be partially to blame. You know your tax dollars are being put to work there, you have done nothing to end the war, they are essentially "fighting for your freedom". To admit their actions were wrong would be to accept the fact that it was your fault...and doing so wouldn't let you sleep at night. Rationalize all you want...doesn't change the fact that it was wrong, and you know it.

You really don't have a clue, do you?I wouldn't say there was a period of "shock" just to bullshit you on an internet forum. There was. And yes, I'm on the American troops team and not the terrorist militia team. Also, my family, friends and neighbors wouldn't be stupid enough to live in a war-zone so that's irrelevant.Against my nature to question? My post was full of questions.Anyone can have whatever opinion they want about Bush starting the war in Iraq. The troops, on the other hand, didn't have a choice. They were given a job that consists of putting their life on the line (and yes, you can argument to yourself all day long whether it's useless or for a purpose). When someone realistically puts themselves in their shoes, the actions start to become more reasonable.Also, you're a shitty troll.

[jmkiser 0]

JoeyJoJo: It's not your fault. jmkiser: I know... JoeyJoJo: No you don't. It's not your fault. jmkiser: [serious] I know. JoeyJoJo: No. Listen to me son. It's not your fault. jmkiser: I know that. JoeyJoJo: It's not your fault. [jmkiser is silent, eyes closed] JoeyJoJo: It's not your fault. jmkiser: [jmkiser's eyes open, misty already] Don't fuck with me Joey. Not you. JoeyJoJo: It's not your fault. [jmkiser shoves JoeyJoJo back, and then, hands trembling, buries his face in his hands. jmkiser begins sobbing. JoeyJoJo puts his hands on jmkiser's shoulders, and jmkiser grabs him and holds him close, crying] jmkiser: Oh my God! I'm so sorry! I'm so sorry Joey! [jmkiser continues sobbing in JoeyJoJo's arms]

HAHA<3 the good will hunting reference

[Kenny Banya 0]

You really don't have a clue, do you?I wouldn't say there was a period of "shock" just to bullshit you on an internet forum. There was. And yes, I'm on the American troops team and not the terrorist militia team. Also, my family, friends and neighbors wouldn't be stupid enough to live in a war-zone so that's irrelevant.Against my nature to question? My post was full of questions.Anyone can have whatever opinion they want about Bush starting the war in Iraq. The troops, on the other hand, didn't have a choice. They were given a job that consists of putting their life on the line (and yes, you can argument to yourself all day long whether it's useless or for a purpose). When someone realistically puts themselves in their shoes, the actions start to become more reasonable.Also, you're a shitty troll.

First of all, I'm not a troll.The people who were killed in the video weren't terrorists. Do you honestly think all people on that side of the world are terrorists? Also, these people didn't really have a choice to "live in a war-zone". Where else are they to go? Besides, 2 million refugees are currently living in Syria so many have already got out of there.I don't blame the troops for the war at all. But they do have a responsibility for their own actions. The sad truth is, this is what war is. Like a member from that helicopter company said recently, things like this happen all the time in Iraq. Troops do have a choice of whether or not they join the military. Last time I checked, there isn't a draft anymore.Serious question. Do the things you saw in the video make you, and the country for that matter, more safe or less safe?

[Jeepster80125 0]

First of all, I'm not a troll.The people who were killed in the video weren't terrorists. Do you honestly think all people on that side of the world are terrorists? Also, these people didn't really have a choice to "live in a war-zone". Where else are they to go? Besides, 2 million refugees are currently living in Syria so many have already got out of there.I don't blame the troops for the war at all. But they do have a responsibility for their own actions. The sad truth is, this is what war is. Like a member from that helicopter company said recently, things like this happen all the time in Iraq. Troops do have a choice of whether or not they join the military. Last time I checked, there isn't a draft anymore.Serious question. Do the things you saw in the video make you, and the country for that matter, more safe or less safe?

It seems like you don't realize that the biggest issue here, is that there were photographers that DID NOT NOTIFY the US that they would be working in the area that morning. It seems like you don't realize that these two photogs were embedded with anti-US troops who were actively engaging the US forces at that time, less than 2 blocks away.It seems like you don't realize that these two photogs were NOT wearing any identifying clothing such as photog vests or something similiar.I think you might be using this video to say something that is not related to this specific video.Have you even read any explanations or reports from the pilots etc?I can't believe I actually made a post replying to your absurd position.

[Kenny Banya 0]

It seems like you don't realize that the biggest issue here, is that there were photographers that DID NOT NOTIFY the US that they would be working in the area that morning. It seems like you don't realize that these two photogs were embedded with anti-US troops who were actively engaging the US forces at that time, less than 2 blocks away.It seems like you don't realize that these two photogs were NOT wearing any identifying clothing such as photog vests or something similiar.I think you might be using this video to say something that is not related to this specific video.Have you even read any explanations or reports from the pilots etc?I can't believe I actually made a post replying to your absurd position.

Do you even understand what rules of engagement means! You can't just go and blow away every single person you suspect might be a hostile target. And no, they weren't "embedded" with anti-U.S. troops. They were reporters covering the news.What do you suppose I am trying to say that isn't related to the video? Out with your conspiracy theory.Same question to you. Do the things you saw in the video make you, and the country for that matter, more safe or less safe?