Average win rate for 1-2 NL at the casino

[Provotrout 0]

Congrats on your stats...very good. I recently started playing live this year, mostly $2-5. Here are my stats (i really wish i could calculate per hand like online players do...i guess i have to sit there one day and mark it down for 1 hr to get an average..)Total hours played: 85.25Total net profit: 5225Total hourly rate: 61.29Games$1/2 - 20 hours played - (-605) - (-30.25/hr)$2/5 - 58.25 hours played - (+5870) - (+100.77/hr)$5/5 - 7 hours played - (-40) - (-5.71/hr)I think I've been running really good...and I know for sure these stats will eventually bottom out. I don't plan on playing higher than $2/5, until I've been winning for a LONG time...over a year at least. $5/5 I'll play occasionally, but the next big step up would be $5/10, and that's insane to me. Do you play online? I'm wondering how your stats are online, and what limits do you play on there...Please let us know how you continue to do...

Just left the tables in AC and am getting couple hours of rest before heading home. Here are the updated figures:Total hours played: 81Total net profit: $1,690Total hourly rate: $20Cashed: 10/15Games$.50-1.00 home game NLHE 4h / +$47 / $11/h$1-2 live NLHE 55h / +$1,265 / $23/h$1-3 live NLHE 22h / +$378 / $17/hHad a Saturday early morning - Sunday trip this weekend and logged 13h on the 1-2 and 1-3NLHE tables (lost ~$144 overall). It was kind of a weird weekend. Had a few games with vulnerable players but wasn't able to face off with them for big showdown wins. There were a couple of times I folded wtih acceptable calling odds, only to make the hand after folding, as well as a lot of second-best scenarios and a couple suckouts. I did a good job of bluffing a few nice pots (8 for so of 10 attempts) that added over $100 to the bottom line. Made a couple errors in judgement (not calling raises with favorable pot odds, etc). So parts of the game improved this trip (high bluff success ratio & net bluffing gains), while some fundamental errors cost a coulple good sized pots. Definitely learned a few things this weekend and am reading "No Limit Hold'em: Theory and Practice." Working on the game one day at a time and still excited about the live results so far.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

...Poker is one of those niches that offers a good upside for those capable, disciplined enough, and willing to put risk capital to work in a sound manner...

No.Poker is NOT an Investment Strategy.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I was reminded of this thread (a modern classic):http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...=139528&hl=

[Provotrout 0]

No.Poker is NOT an Investment Strategy.

Probably not the best way to describe it, but it can act like a bond in terms of requiring a block of money and providing cash flow over a period of time + principal upon finishing. Similar risks apply with bonds in terms of default risk interrupting both the cash flow and return of principal.

[Ninja Ace 1]

No.Poker is NOT an Investment Strategy.

It is and it isn't...It certainly is not an investment strategy on the macro level. You can't just create a system, put your capitol behind it, and expect it to work automagically.However, on the micromanagement level... it certainly is investment. Each pot you play you're investing that your skill (not your cards) will allow you to profit long term. I mean... in a game where you push edges and are rewarded monetarily... how can it not be investment strategy? I guess it just pisses off the purists who do the whole wallstreet thing or work the reality markets

[CrookedLink 0]

Here's my YTD stats playing 1/2nl at the local charity casino:Hours Played: 60Total Winnings: $1,330Win Rate: $22/hrTotal Sessions: 13This is my first year keeping detailed stats on my live sessions so I really have no idea what my lifetime win rate is in the game (Been playing live since turning 18 in September of 07)I think $22/hr is a pretty sustainable winrate at 1/2nl though. I do plan to put in a ton of hours this coming summer and the plan is to build up a respectable bankroll (~$4k) with aspirations to leave my minimum wage job and grind 200nl full time by this time next year. Honestly even a more moderate winrate of $12-$15/hr would still allow me to sustain my current style of living while at the same time doing something that I both love and gives me the personal freedom that this profession entails. I know I'm coming off as naive and immature for thinking that I've got it all figured out and most will probably tell me I'm destined for epic failure.However, being that I'm only 20 (21 in 6 months) and with virtually no living expenses since I still live at home, I feel like if I really want to take a shot at this poker thing, it's pretty much now or never. It's not like I'm quitting a high paying job either. If I do go broke, I'll just be back to where I am now. But I will have at least given it a shot. I also think the fact that I still live at home and have no major monthly expenses will help me play more comfortable at the tables and handle the downswings a bit better since I won't have to worry about how the hell I'm going to make rent if my flush draw doesn't hit.Thoughts/comments besides the obligatory tp/mm?

[KingJames 11]

Save up like 6 months of living expenses + your bankroll

[trystero 0]

the failure won't be epic; it's happened many times before, and will happen many times again.

[Provotrout 0]

However, being that I'm only 20 (21 in 6 months) and with virtually no living expenses since I still live at home, I feel like if I really want to take a shot at this poker thing, it's pretty much now or never. It's not like I'm quitting a high paying job either. If I do go broke, I'll just be back to where I am now. But I will have at least given it a shot. I also think the fact that I still live at home and have no major monthly expenses will help me play more comfortable at the tables and handle the downswings a bit better since I won't have to worry about how the hell I'm going to make rent if my flush draw doesn't hit.Thoughts/comments besides the obligatory tp/mm?

You're 20.. take a shot! You may end up doing well in higher $ games and living well within short time, you could grind for awhile and get tired of it, or you could fail. Anyway you look at it, don't be afraid to pursue something you want. You'll learn reasonably quickly how realistic the goal is and whether or not it's right for you. If you keep your discipline and devote yourself to learning the game/people you have a decent shot. Keep the stat updates coming & good luck-

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Here's my YTD stats playing 1/2nl at the local charity casino:Hours Played: 60Total Winnings: $1,330Win Rate: $22/hrTotal Sessions: 13This is my first year keeping detailed stats on my live sessions so I really have no idea what my lifetime win rate is in the game (Been playing live since turning 18 in September of 07)I think $22/hr is a pretty sustainable winrate at 1/2nl though. I do plan to put in a ton of hours this coming summer and the plan is to build up a respectable bankroll (~$4k) with aspirations to leave my minimum wage job and grind 200nl full time by this time next year. Honestly even a more moderate winrate of $12-$15/hr would still allow me to sustain my current style of living while at the same time doing something that I both love and gives me the personal freedom that this profession entails. I know I'm coming off as naive and immature for thinking that I've got it all figured out and most will probably tell me I'm destined for epic failure.However, being that I'm only 20 (21 in 6 months) and with virtually no living expenses since I still live at home, I feel like if I really want to take a shot at this poker thing, it's pretty much now or never. It's not like I'm quitting a high paying job either. If I do go broke, I'll just be back to where I am now. But I will have at least given it a shot. I also think the fact that I still live at home and have no major monthly expenses will help me play more comfortable at the tables and handle the downswings a bit better since I won't have to worry about how the hell I'm going to make rent if my flush draw doesn't hit.Thoughts/comments besides the obligatory tp/mm?

I'll give a little "Tough Love" hereWe all want to run off and join the Circus. But reality often gets in the way. Poker doesn't have to be an "either/or" decision vs. a "real" job. This isn't a cross-road. No reason to treat it that way. Especially if you're going to make a life decision on 60 hours and $1,300. It sounds to me more like you're looking for a reason to quit the job at this point.So, sure, grind a bit. Build a bankroll. But don't think of it as some sort of a "shot". Right now it is just Poker. See where it takes you, but don't get your expectations beyond reality.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Here's my YTD stats playing 1/2nl at the local charity casino:Hours Played: 60Total Winnings: $1,330Win Rate: $22/hrTotal Sessions: 13This is my first year keeping detailed stats on my live sessions so I really have no idea what my lifetime win rate is in the game (Been playing live since turning 18 in September of 07)I think $22/hr is a pretty sustainable winrate at 1/2nl though. I do plan to put in a ton of hours this coming summer and the plan is to build up a respectable bankroll (~$4k) with aspirations to leave my minimum wage job and grind 200nl full time by this time next year. Honestly even a more moderate winrate of $12-$15/hr would still allow me to sustain my current style of living while at the same time doing something that I both love and gives me the personal freedom that this profession entails. I know I'm coming off as naive and immature for thinking that I've got it all figured out and most will probably tell me I'm destined for epic failure.However, being that I'm only 20 (21 in 6 months) and with virtually no living expenses since I still live at home, I feel like if I really want to take a shot at this poker thing, it's pretty much now or never. It's not like I'm quitting a high paying job either. If I do go broke, I'll just be back to where I am now. But I will have at least given it a shot. I also think the fact that I still live at home and have no major monthly expenses will help me play more comfortable at the tables and handle the downswings a bit better since I won't have to worry about how the hell I'm going to make rent if my flush draw doesn't hit.Thoughts/comments besides the obligatory tp/mm?

$22/hr at poker is like having a really good fast food restaurant job.

[trystero 0]

$22/hour is so far above what you'd make serving Slurpees...

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Mmmmmmmm......Slurpees.

[Ninja Ace 1]

Thoughts/comments besides the obligatory tp/mm?

In the past few months my sole income has been off of poker... live and online. "It's a hard way to make an easy living" rings ooooooh so very true.First off, if you're living off of it your bankroll has to be huuuuuge in comparison to the stakes you are playing. That 4k you plan on having as your bankroll... yeah... that better be just your bankroll. You will need equal amount of personal finances that are not for poker. You have to really treat it like you're a boss of a business and you give yourself paychecks out of your bankroll... monthly. I've had to drop down in stakes at the end of some months just because I didn't make enough to keep my BR high enough and still give myself the paycheck.Prepare for the biggest emotional ride of your life. Poker will do some sick things for long periods and short periods. It becomes very easy to grossly overestimate your abilities during run goods... and during huge downstretches (which will seem like a freaking eternity in live poker... possibly months) you will begin to question if you can even play properly or profitably anymore.My advice to handle this is as follows. First, you have to be able to play different formats of poker. I have to switch between HU SNG's, 6-max cash, FR cash, and SSing cash just to stay sane and keep my game from getting too warped by recent results. Also, playing different formats will increase your understanding of the game. Second... you cannot and will not succeed if you use drugs or alcohol. Like drinking? Like smokin the occasional reefer? That's fine... but you better plan at least 3 days off after you're done to recover from it. Thirdly, teach someone. Teaching someone will re-enforce your skills and keep you from derailing your game... and also give you someone to bitch to about bad down stretches. Fourth, if you can't take a horrible beat you can't do it. If you can't ship it all in on the flop against some nonsense hand who hits PERFECT runner runner (i.e. only a 2 card combo left in the deck for them to win the hand) and take that beat with a smile and a laugh, then you have no business trying to live off the game.

[shynepo3 0]

In the past few months my sole income has been off of poker... live and online. "It's a hard way to make an easy living" rings ooooooh so very true.First off, if you're living off of it your bankroll has to be huuuuuge in comparison to the stakes you are playing. That 4k you plan on having as your bankroll... yeah... that better be just your bankroll. You will need equal amount of personal finances that are not for poker. You have to really treat it like you're a boss of a business and you give yourself paychecks out of your bankroll... monthly. I've had to drop down in stakes at the end of some months just because I didn't make enough to keep my BR high enough and still give myself the paycheck.Prepare for the biggest emotional ride of your life. Poker will do some sick things for long periods and short periods. It becomes very easy to grossly overestimate your abilities during run goods... and during huge downstretches (which will seem like a freaking eternity in live poker... possibly months) you will begin to question if you can even play properly or profitably anymore.My advice to handle this is as follows. First, you have to be able to play different formats of poker. I have to switch between HU SNG's, 6-max cash, FR cash, and SSing cash just to stay sane and keep my game from getting too warped by recent results. Also, playing different formats will increase your understanding of the game. Second... you cannot and will not succeed if you use drugs or alcohol. Like drinking? Like smokin the occasional reefer? That's fine... but you better plan at least 3 days off after you're done to recover from it. Thirdly, teach someone. Teaching someone will re-enforce your skills and keep you from derailing your game... and also give you someone to bitch to about bad down stretches. Fourth, if you can't take a horrible beat you can't do it. If you can't ship it all in on the flop against some nonsense hand who hits PERFECT runner runner (i.e. only a 2 card combo left in the deck for them to win the hand) and take that beat with a smile and a laugh, then you have no business trying to live off the game.

well said..

[mtdesmoines 3]

In the past few months my sole income has been off of poker... live and online. "It's a hard way to make an easy living" rings ooooooh so very true.First off, if you're living off of it your bankroll has to be huuuuuge in comparison to the stakes you are playing. That 4k you plan on having as your bankroll... yeah... that better be just your bankroll. You will need equal amount of personal finances that are not for poker. You have to really treat it like you're a boss of a business and you give yourself paychecks out of your bankroll... monthly. I've had to drop down in stakes at the end of some months just because I didn't make enough to keep my BR high enough and still give myself the paycheck.Prepare for the biggest emotional ride of your life. Poker will do some sick things for long periods and short periods. It becomes very easy to grossly overestimate your abilities during run goods... and during huge downstretches (which will seem like a freaking eternity in live poker... possibly months) you will begin to question if you can even play properly or profitably anymore.My advice to handle this is as follows. First, you have to be able to play different formats of poker. I have to switch between HU SNG's, 6-max cash, FR cash, and SSing cash just to stay sane and keep my game from getting too warped by recent results. Also, playing different formats will increase your understanding of the game. Second... you cannot and will not succeed if you use drugs or alcohol. Like drinking? Like smokin the occasional reefer? That's fine... but you better plan at least 3 days off after you're done to recover from it. Thirdly, teach someone. Teaching someone will re-enforce your skills and keep you from derailing your game... and also give you someone to bitch to about bad down stretches. Fourth, if you can't take a horrible beat you can't do it. If you can't ship it all in on the flop against some nonsense hand who hits PERFECT runner runner (i.e. only a 2 card combo left in the deck for them to win the hand) and take that beat with a smile and a laugh, then you have no business trying to live off the game.

+1

[Stupidhead 2]

In the past few months my sole income has been off of poker... live and online. "It's a hard way to make an easy living" rings ooooooh so very true.First off, if you're living off of it your bankroll has to be huuuuuge in comparison to the stakes you are playing. That 4k you plan on having as your bankroll... yeah... that better be just your bankroll. You will need equal amount of personal finances that are not for poker. You have to really treat it like you're a boss of a business and you give yourself paychecks out of your bankroll... monthly. I've had to drop down in stakes at the end of some months just because I didn't make enough to keep my BR high enough and still give myself the paycheck.Prepare for the biggest emotional ride of your life. Poker will do some sick things for long periods and short periods. It becomes very easy to grossly overestimate your abilities during run goods... and during huge downstretches (which will seem like a freaking eternity in live poker... possibly months) you will begin to question if you can even play properly or profitably anymore.My advice to handle this is as follows. First, you have to be able to play different formats of poker. I have to switch between HU SNG's, 6-max cash, FR cash, and SSing cash just to stay sane and keep my game from getting too warped by recent results. Also, playing different formats will increase your understanding of the game. Second... you cannot and will not succeed if you use drugs or alcohol. Like drinking? Like smokin the occasional reefer? That's fine... but you better plan at least 3 days off after you're done to recover from it. Thirdly, teach someone. Teaching someone will re-enforce your skills and keep you from derailing your game... and also give you someone to bitch to about bad down stretches. Fourth, if you can't take a horrible beat you can't do it. If you can't ship it all in on the flop against some nonsense hand who hits PERFECT runner runner (i.e. only a 2 card combo left in the deck for them to win the hand) and take that beat with a smile and a laugh, then you have no business trying to live off the game.

I agree with everything except the bolded. This may be true for some players but there are a lot of players that can just grind away at one game very successfully.

[Ninja Ace 1]

I agree with everything except the bolded. This may be true for some players but there are a lot of players that can just grind away at one game very successfully.

Those players must have amazing sex lives thenbut playing different formats of NLHE will deeefinitely increase your understanding of the game

[Danege 1]

Those players must have amazing sex lives thenbut playing different formats of NLHE will deeefinitely increase your understanding of the game

This is a good way to be medicore at lots of different things, instead of being excellent at one.You decide which is better.

[fighter 4]

This is a good way to be medicore at lots of different things, instead of being excellent at one.You decide which is better.

This guy totally agrees with youThis guy does as well.

[Provotrout 0]

This guy totally agrees with youThis guy does as well.

That's hilarious.

[Ninja Ace 1]

so does that mean I'll have a mediocre sex life?

[Provotrout 0]

Updated statsFound a rash of un-raked, organized home games in the area (mostly 1-3NLHE), so I've been playing home games lately and forgoing the drive to AC, along with the rake. Took the advice of some previous posters and put a portion of the bankroll online. Down $125 online through 3,000 hands, mostly due to a leak in playing high pocket pairs post flop. Losing net at .25-.50NLHE, but doing well in lower stakes NLHE and Omaha 8. Planning to stay at lower stakes until the PTBB gets above 6.Anyhow, here are the updated live stats:Bankroll $7,770Net Gains: $2,070Hours: 101$/h: $21$/session: $121Cashed: 13/18.50NLHE +$50 (4h) $12/h.50-1.00NLHE +197 (14h) $14/h1-2NLHE +$1,265 (55h) $23/h1-3NLHE +$668 (30h) $22/h

[shynepo3 0]

Updated statsFound a rash of un-raked, organized home games in the area (mostly 1-3NLHE), so I've been playing home games lately and forgoing the drive to AC, along with the rake. Took the advice of some previous posters and put a portion of the bankroll online. Down $125 online through 3,000 hands, mostly due to a leak in playing high pocket pairs post flop. Losing net at .25-.50NLHE, but doing well in lower stakes NLHE and Omaha 8. Planning to stay at lower stakes until the PTBB gets above 6.Anyhow, here are the updated live stats:Bankroll $7,770Net Gains: $2,070Hours: 101$/h: $21$/session: $121Cashed: 13/18.50NLHE +$50 (4h) $12/h.50-1.00NLHE +197 (14h) $14/h1-2NLHE +$1,265 (55h) $23/h1-3NLHE +$668 (30h) $22/h

doing well....this just your live stats? i've been doing well too..but i haven't made the jump to online...and i finally told my wife! once she found out how much I made, she reluctantly accepted it for now...

[Provotrout 0]

doing well....this just your live stats? i've been doing well too..but i haven't made the jump to online...and i finally told my wife! once she found out how much I made, she reluctantly accepted it for now...

What are your stats so far? I don't have any tracking software yet (have a mac) so I can't post official PTBB/100. Got a phone app that tracks live games, but I didn't want to dilute the stats with 1,000s of hands of micro stakes games (not to mention live and online performance are tracked differently). In .10-.25 and below NLHE and Omaha 8 I'm tracking ~5PTBB/100 through 1,500 hands. Unfortunately, I dropped about $200 playing .25-.50NLHE before changing the strategy and shifting to lower stakes.