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oh god not this again.If you want to outlaw abortion, then you are telling all women over the age of 13 that if they get pregnant they are automatically locked in to carrying that baby to term no matter how much of a hardship that might be (and since we have basically 50 guys and one lady in this forum regularly it is silly to think that we can honestly understand those hardships).some people think hey too bad/tough crap. you had sex now you have a fetus inside you and the potential life of that fetus is so important that it justifies telling you what to do with your body for nine months.Both options are lousy.....and since I dont ever have to worry about getting pregnant I am going to go with whatever women want on this one. It is their bodies and they have more maternal instincts than me anyways. And the majority of women in this country (though not a large majority) want abortion to be legal in all states. I normally have no time for the Gloria Steinhams of the world but on this one I agree with the maxim that "if men got pregnant, abortion would be a constitutional right".

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oh god not this again.If you want to outlaw abortion, then you are telling all women over the age of 13 that if they get pregnant they are automatically locked in to carrying that baby to term no matter how much of a hardship that might be (and since we have basically 50 guys and one lady in this forum regularly it is silly to think that we can honestly understand those hardships).some people think hey too bad/tough crap. you had sex now you have a fetus inside you and the potential life of that fetus is so important that it justifies telling you what to do with your body for nine months.Both options are lousy.....and since I dont ever have to worry about getting pregnant I am going to go with whatever women want on this one. It is their bodies and they have more maternal instincts than me anyways. And the majority of women in this country (though not a large majority) want abortion to be legal in all states. I normally have no time for the Gloria Steinhams of the world but on this one I agree with the maxim that "if men got pregnant, abortion would be a constitutional right".
That's pretty spineless even for you.
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after about an hour of careful thought and consideration (read: 20 seconds of actual thought, 59 minutes and 40 seconds of jamming hardcore to the hold steady), I have come to realize that abortion is actually a wonderful free market mechanism to control populations. laizzes faire at its finest. discuss THAT bitches.

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and donkslayer--that's all well and good, but unless you're willing to offer up a definition of life that we can all agree upon, #3 as you've formulated it doesn't really amount to anything.
Come on, no one has "the" definition of life. I personally assign ranges, and hold to task others that have some sort of self-serving relativism when they try to define life or their own ranges.My range of intrinsic value tends to be rock<lowest forms of animated life<seeds<human zygote<higher forms of animals<inviable human fetus<viable fetus<malicious murdering human<just-born baby<relatively innocent human.That's just mine, but I would challenge someone who has liberal tendencies to justify having a bigger moral/ethical problem with eating domesticated animals than aborting a fetus that could be viable if delivered at the time.
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but i don't think myself (quite) arrogant enough to presume that i knew enough about the world and life to be confident in making that decision for everyone, always and forever.
I agree with you totally here, none of us should presume we know enough to end a human life. Remember there are no rebuys, an abortion ends the only shot at life that person had.
an abortion clinic and doctor made a horrific error (though not altogether different in kind from the more horrible malpractice cases
Could you explain what you find "horrific" about this. Are you saying this was horrific because it happened in a location a few feet different from where it was planned?
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That's pretty spineless even for you.
no it shows respect for women.I am sure we can add them to the list of people you dont respect (along with gays, blacks, immigrants, and Shawn Marion).I cant say when life starts and I have no idea how much of a hardship pregnancy is. So, I defer to people with a more vested interest in the problem.
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no it shows respect for women.I am sure we can add them to the list of people you dont respect (along with gays, blacks, immigrants, and Shawn Marion).I cant say when life starts and I have no idea how much of a hardship pregnancy is. So, I defer to people with a more vested interest in the problem.
Have fun in Phoenix with LMD :club:
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after about an hour of careful thought and consideration (read: 20 seconds of actual thought, 59 minutes and 40 seconds of jamming hardcore to the hold steady), I have come to realize that abortion is actually a wonderful free market mechanism to control populations. laizzes faire at its finest. discuss THAT bitches.
Sure. The UNPC agrees with you. That is why the tax money we send abroad to "health clinics" is helping this organiztion to hold woman hostage until they abort their babies. Despite the fact that most of the world disagrees with abortion on a moral basis, the UN has brought it upon themselves to use it as population control, with the US tax payers dollars (at least now that Obama has signed the Exec Order).
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The law he broke was in not allowng the baby to fully die on the table before he put him in the trash.This is not an uncommon happening in late term abortions, born alive, left to die on a table.Never should have let women vote

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Have fun in Phoenix with LMD :club:
I dont even mind him that much and I bet I would like him if we hung out.He just knows how to really get me going.
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The baby?? I agree with everything you said except your conclusion. Life trumps Choice.
I did not conclude anything. I said that I deferred to women who, as a majority, want abortion to remain legal. There are lots of people in our society making sure the potential baby has a voice which is good.
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I'm pro choice.I don't think abortions about three, maybe four months should be legal. If the baby has a chance of surviving outside of the womb, then abortions shouldn't be allowed.That's my 2 cents.

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I did not conclude anything. I said that I deferred to women who, as a majority, want abortion to remain legal. There are lots of people in our society making sure the potential baby has a voice which is good.
yes, you deferred to women who want abortion to remain legal, and I suggest that the baby get the benefit of the doubt since his/her whole existance is on the line.
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Sure. The UNPC agrees with you. That is why the tax money we send abroad to "health clinics" is helping this organiztion to hold woman hostage until they abort their babies. Despite the fact that most of the world disagrees with abortion on a moral basis, the UN has brought it upon themselves to use it as population control, with the US tax payers dollars (at least now that Obama has signed the Exec Order).
money well spent in my opinion. now if we could just get some more funding to accelerate post parturition abortions, we'd be getting somewhere.
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So if they find a gay gene, and people begin aborting any baby with the gay gene...would that be good, bad or neither?In India they abort most female babies, they want males

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So if they find a gay gene, and people begin aborting any baby with the gay gene...would that be good, bad or neither?In India they abort most female babies, they want males
But who are they going to have sex with to have more abortions. This seems very short sighted.
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yes, you deferred to women who want abortion to remain legal, and I suggest that the baby get the benefit of the doubt since his/her whole existance is on the line.
I really dont like babies. There is a crying baby on every flight I go on. It's uncanny. Got any other selling points?
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i happen to think that i'm no more or less alive than a rock, since the word "alive" is a bit, well, silly to me, but i'm well aware that that's not a majority opinion.
All concepts rely on arbitrary distinctions at some level. The concept of 'alive' is actually a useful one and there are obviously important ways that you are different from a rock that warrant the concept of 'alive'. Although I do agree that on some level you are also the same as a rock.
it still does seem weird to me, though, for people to use the "life starts at this point" argument to rationalize the legality of abortion. like, full lung function is a human, but without, just a fetus!
That there is a difference in how we are inclined to treat three cells in a dish compared to how we treat something that looks like a tiny version of a person is not strange to me at all. Where specifically to draw the line seems like a difficult question, but that doesn't mean we should just give up on making any distinction.
So if they find a gay gene, and people begin aborting any baby with the gay gene...would that be good, bad or neither?In India they abort most female babies, they want males
This is likely to become more and more of an issue, but I think it's going to ultimately happen at the conception stage, i.e. choosing the specific sperm that gives you the characteristics you want.
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That there is a difference in how we are inclined to treat three cells in a dish compared to how we treat something that looks like a tiny version of a person is not strange to me at all. Where specifically to draw the line seems like a difficult question, but that doesn't mean we should just give up on making any distinction.
sure we should. I already have!
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