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I don't think it was the best play, I never claimed it was. I played it this way because after being super aggressive with aces twice recently I wanted to try something different and put myself in a difficult spot post flop with it. In retrospect, yes you are right. ABC poker would have been better here or doing this in position would have been better.I'm asking for how people would proceed on the turn. I'm curious how people proceed with very underrepresented aces facing a turn raise.I'm not posting the results of the hand right now EG.
Given your read and the small amount if chips you've put into the pot I fold. You fold the best hand sometimes in this spot but if you call you're also probably going to call a river bet with a worse hand more often.
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Would he raise here with just a T very often? I think villain raising with something like KT JT ect is bad because most of the time you are only calling with a flush draw or a better hand.
652 with two to a suit is a draw heavy board. The only T I could put in his hand is if its TsXs. ATss would make sense, but I had the ace so....More villain history regarding set play. On a previous hand where he limp/called a 20 dollar raise preflop and the flop was 875 rainbow he checkraised two people huge over betting the pot by a significant margin with a set of 5's. If he is really scared of draws, he seems to bet very big to get people out. That seemed to be an atypical play from him anytime he hit a set.Knowing that I wasn't putting him on a set in this hand or I think I would have seen a larger bet on the turn or even more action on the flop since there were two people in the hand ahead of him.That information probably should have been in the OP, sorry.
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One thing that you really should take into consideration is, "what does it matter if I have have AA here?"By that I mean, how is AA any different than 99? Well, obviously if he had Tx, then he's ahead of 99. Are there any other differences? I don't really see many. Yeah, you have AA, but it's not like much (read: hardly any) of his range is made up of hands that care if you have 1 pair or not. I mean, he's got a draw of some kind or a hand that beats one-pair hands here almost always. With AA, the only hand you're really ahead of is Txss. Granted, if you had JJ and he decided to raise K9ss on the turn, he'd have another couple of outs than he would if you're holding AA, but essentially you have a 1 pair hand and almost all 1 pair hands are in the same shape against his range.Basically, it's not like he's showing up with JJ-KK here ever, so having AA isn't a huge departure from having A6 or something.
Yea I'm not putting him on KK-JJ here, the call on the flop makes me lean toward a draw. I wasn't thinking "I have aces here, how can I lose?", I was thinking there is no way he can put me on an over pair here because he thinks I would be raising AA-JJ.You make good points.
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That information probably should have been in the OP, sorry.
That does make a difference. I still think the safe (correct?) play here would be to fold most of the time though, but that information would push me closer to shoving.
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More villain history regarding set play. On a previous hand where he limp/called a 20 dollar raise preflop and the flop was 875 rainbow he checkraised two people huge over betting the pot by a significant margin with a set of 5's. If he is really scared of draws, he seems to bet very big to get people out. That seemed to be an atypical play from him anytime he hit a set.
This seems like a different situation, if he called a 20 raise preflop that's at least $60 in pot preflop, then he check-raises the flop. The pot must have already been pretty big and he figures to get called most of the time. So I wouldn't always rule out sets here, I know I don't always play them the same way.I just think you're in a really bad spot here, it's really hard to put villain on a hand. He's giving you such a good price to call, seems like he isn't trying to get you to go away.
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That does make a difference. I still think the safe (correct?) play here would be to fold most of the time though, but that information would push me closer to shoving.
So your order would be Fold, Push, Call?
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How has villain played straights/ large draws (overs/flush draw even straight flush draw)? I agree that with how deep stacks are it is fold>call>shove. In a limp pot it is possible for him to have a hand like 56 and now we are just hoping to hit our 8 outs

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652 with two to a suit is a draw heavy board. The only T I could put in his hand is if its TsXs. ATss would make sense, but I had the ace so....More villain history regarding set play. On a previous hand where he limp/called a 20 dollar raise preflop and the flop was 875 rainbow he checkraised two people huge over betting the pot by a significant margin with a set of 5's. If he is really scared of draws, he seems to bet very big to get people out. That seemed to be an atypical play from him anytime he hit a set.Knowing that I wasn't putting him on a set in this hand or I think I would have seen a larger bet on the turn or even more action on the flop since there were two people in the hand ahead of him.That information probably should have been in the OP, sorry.
But in all fairness he's playing that hand that way in the face of a $20 preflop raise so he's trying to drive out draws and hoping to get action from an overpair if the original raiser was strong and puts him on the draw.In this hand the villain doesn't have a great reason to believe that he's up against a big overpair and would be less inclined to play it that way, so I don't think this example gives us much reason to eliminate a set from his range. Now Acid will tell me why I'm wrong.
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Yes you got really cute with these. But you don't want to talk about that.So, lets pretend you didn't make a huge mistake here preflop.The flop bet is a good pot sized bet as you don't want anyone to draw too cheaply when you just have the big pair.A couple of callers to the flop bet means possible draws or slowplayed two pairs and sets or potentially a medium pair. There is a flush and straight draw out.The turn bet of 18 is smallish in relation to the $43 pot and the villian raises it up to $50. Maybe he senses weakness and is pushing his draw or perhaps he has a hand like AT. Or he has two pair or a set or a medium pocket pair he is trying to protect. Small possiblility of a bluff, but I think small. Dunno... You are out of position here. I think I would call and see what the river brings. If the river completes a draw and he bets, you probably needt to fold. If the river is a blank and he bets, you will have a hard decision. Maybe he will check it down which is the best you can hope for. Either way, I don't think I would call a big bet on the river. My second (very close second) is to lay it down to the turn raise.In the future, I would avoid getting cute with aces.

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You have position. I think you call and see what the river brings.
Hero is out of position.
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You have position. I think you call and see what the river brings. If the river completes a draw and he bets, you probably needt to fold. If the river is a blank and he bets, you will have a hard decision. If he checks the river, then you can probably just check behind. Either way, I don't think I would call a giant bet on the river. But I don't see how you can lay this down on the turn.
The SB never has position.
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But in all fairness he's playing that hand that way in the face of a $20 preflop raise so he's trying to drive out draws and hoping to get action from an overpair if the original raiser was strong and puts him on the draw.In this hand the villain doesn't have a great reason to believe that he's up against a big overpair and would be less inclined to play it that way, so I don't think this example gives us much reason to eliminate a set from his range. Now Acid will tell me why I'm wrong.
That was one example of a villain playing a hand that hit the flop really hard with draws on the board just from this session, past experience with the villain says it's fairly consistent in a raised or a limped pot. He could be changing it up, but it's unlikely. If he is scared of a draw, he overbets. A smaller bet had me thinking either 2 pair, pair and a draw, combo draw (straight & Flush) or maybe even just trying to buy it though I think that is a small % of the time given his history.Given that info, aces being under represented and stack sizes, hero calls (at this point regretting not raising preflop.... yea I know already).River: 8dPot is 143.00. A few straight draws get there, no flush though. Hero has villain covered and he is about 170 behind at this point.Lead out or check?*I wont be back to check on this till tomorrow, have fun ripping it apart.
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That was one example of a villain playing a hand that hit the flop really hard with draws on the board just from this session, past experience with the villain says it's fairly consistent in a raised or a limped pot. He could be changing it up, but it's unlikely. If he is scared of a draw, he overbets. A smaller bet had me thinking either 2 pair, pair and a draw, combo draw (straight & Flush) or maybe even just trying to buy it though I think that is a small % of the time given his history.Given that info, aces being under represented and stack sizes, hero calls (at this point regretting not raising preflop.... yea I know already).River: 8dPot is 143.00. A few straight draws get there, no flush though. Hero has villain covered and he is about 170 behind at this point.Lead out or check?*I wont be back to check on this till tomorrow, have fun ripping it apart.
Check obviously. There's no value to be had from missed draws. He's gonna bet some of those as well as hands that beat you anyway, so it's time to check and see what he does.
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That was one example of a villain playing a hand that hit the flop really hard with draws on the board just from this session, past experience with the villain says it's fairly consistent in a raised or a limped pot. He could be changing it up, but it's unlikely. If he is scared of a draw, he overbets. A smaller bet had me thinking either 2 pair, pair and a draw, combo draw (straight & Flush) or maybe even just trying to buy it though I think that is a small % of the time given his history.Given that info, aces being under represented and stack sizes, hero calls (at this point regretting not raising preflop.... yea I know already).River: 8dPot is 143.00. A few straight draws get there, no flush though. Hero has villain covered and he is about 170 behind at this point.Lead out or check?*I wont be back to check on this till tomorrow, have fun ripping it apart.
I think you check. You are in a real pickle here. You limped a big pair out of position. You have shown some weakness by just calling the turn. If he has one pair or a busted draw, he is likely to check behind which you will welcome. He may try to bluff bet, but I don't think it is too likely given that you already called the turn raise. If he has two pair or better he will definitelly bet some where in the neighborhood of 100 or 150. If he bets this much, you have to lay it down. And if he was bluffing a busted draw.... He just outplayed you. Raise those things preflop next time!
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Pot is 143.00. A few straight draws get there, no flush though. Hero has villain covered and he is about 170 behind at this point.Lead out or check?
Gee-whiz, wouldn't it be better if we were all-in on the turn? Gosh, what to do now?Check and call.
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Lead out or check?*I wont be back to check on this till tomorrow, have fun ripping it apart.
I think it's an easy check, let him bet missed draws that he can't call with. If you have the worst hand then lose the min.
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If he has two pair or better he will definitelly bet some where in the neighborhood of 100 or 150. If he bets this much, you have to lay it down. And if he was bluffing a busted draw.... He just outplayed you.
Hero checks, villain bets 50.00.Seems small right? So... Raise, Fold or Call?
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Hero checks, villain bets 50.00.Seems small right? So... Raise, Fold or Call?
Call. It's a no brainer. Tiny river bet, a ton of money in the pot now and a good chance you have the best hand.
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I don't mean to be a jackass or anything (not true) but limping AA is absolutely atrocious.Assuming this is a standard 1/2NL Live game, then on a bad day, the average player has maybe half a brain. Just for giggles, you should have bumped it up to 20 (if not more) pre-flop and most likely you would have gotten 2/3 callers. Then you can just proceed with the hand la dee doo with 10000x less problems than you have on this hand.Anyways.Flop bet is good.Turn bet is tiny. Bet should be at least 1/2 the pot if not more. After betting more than 1/2 the pot and assuming MP3 has raised, I would say, "Self, I played this hand horribly and I'm going to do myself a favor and fold it."If you find yourself unable to fold, then call/call should be the next most appropriate line.As played, river bet is an insta-call.

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