20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 Well, shoving is great and you want a caller. If you decide to slowplay, you can't ask for a better flop than this.EDIT: I read once that the best flop for AA is 222 because you're likely going to stack all pocket pairs since no one can fold a full house. That's pretty much what you've got going on here. Were I a limper in this hand with A-high, I'd bet this flop relatively certain I was ahead with the way it played preflop.So tell me how you would have played this hand......... Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Okay, so you're angry over the PSU game..........I understand. Tell me how YOU would play the hand.I know this wasn't directed at me, but I would:Raise to 1100 preflop with the intention of shoving any flop > shoving preflop (picking up over 20 percent of your stack is great, but I think you need to double up here) > calling with the intention of getting it all in on any flop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folding preflop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>xINFINITY calling preflop and check-foldingEDIT: If I limp with AA here, I'm going broke with it on any flop. That said, you got the best flop for your hand you could possibly hope for. Folding this flop is like folding AA on an AKK flop because the other guy likely has KK. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 wtf is with the attitude, op? Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 I know this wasn't directed at me, but I would:Raise to 1100 preflop with the intention of shoving any flop > shoving preflop (picking up over 20 percent of your stack is great, but I think you need to double up here) > calling with the intention of getting it all in on any flop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folding preflop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>xINFINITY calling preflop and check-foldingEDIT: If I limp with AA here, I'm going broke with it on any flop. That said, you got the best flop for your hand you could possibly hope for. Folding this flop is like folding AA on an AKK flop because the other guy likely has KK.Okay, bet at least 3BB preflop with A's. Not knowing what the other guy had and assuming he called my bet, what would you do after the flop? Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 wtf is with the attitude, op?Honestly Zach, it's not an attitude. I've seen a brazillion posts just like mine (without a converter) and Cappy had suggested that I post some of my HH's here to get some input. I believe that the first responses thought it was a joke but it truly wasn't. I'm trying to ask a serious question and get serious responses...........and I did expect a few flames. But ha ha, really funny.......now help me learn from my mistake. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THE SECOND NUTS AND ONLY ONE CARD IN THE ENTIRE DECK BEATS YOU? Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 Do you know that screaming at me doesn't help at all.Yes, I know only one card could beat me. His bet was substantial. Did he have the one last 9? Did he have KK? How would you have played the hand? Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Okay, bet at least 3BB preflop with A's. Not knowing what the other guy had and assuming he called my bet, what would you do after the flop?Well, as I said above, if I'm the short stack and I pick up AA, I'm raising preflop and shoving any flop without even looking at the cards that come out. If I get sucked out on, it wasn't my tournament to win. You need to get some chips, though, if you plan on winning this tournament. Raise, stick it. If you don't have the stomach to raise and stick any flop and think you might check-fold for some reason, just shove preflop and hope you get called.For this specific hand, you're literally never, ever behind. If you decide to limp, you're doing it for deception. Mission accomplished. The limper is betting here, likely drawing pretty close to dead. The only hands that can catch up to you are overpairs to the 9, which he almost never shows up with and underpairs that go runner-runner quad. Just think about that. Here are the hands your opponent likely (or in some cases, unlikely) limped with that are drawing nearly dead to your hand:22, 33, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, A2-A8, AT-AK, K2-K8, KT-KQ, QT-QJ, JT, etc.Here are the hands you're in trouble against:Anything with the case 9 (89, 9T, J9, A9) Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 Thank you very much! That is exactly the information I was looking for.............thanks, Naismith! Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Honestly Zach, it's not an attitude. I've seen a brazillion posts just like mine (without a converter) and Cappy had suggested that I post some of my HH's here to get some input. I believe that the first responses thought it was a joke but it truly wasn't. I'm trying to ask a serious question and get serious responses...........and I did expect a few flames. But ha ha, really funny.......now help me learn from my mistake.I haven't flamed you.You haven't seen a billion hands without them being converted in the strategy forum. I can promise you of that. That's another discussion.I'm asking you serious questions, since you seem to have several fundament flaws in your game.First question is do you know that you have the 2nd nuts?Next question is, do you know how unlikely it is that someone has the 9?Next question is, do you really think he'd only shove here with 9x? Any pocket pair has to think they have the best hand because of how preflop went down, and obviously random bluffs, and even AT, AK type hands could think they're ahead, and want to price out 6 outers.Next question is, why did you limp preflop? What were you trying to accomplish? How was this result different from what you were trying to accomplish?==========================My analysis.Every single decision you made in this pot was wrong, and for completely wrong reasons.Preflop, you should raise for VALUE.Flop is a retardedly easy call. If he has the case 9, good for him. You have the 2nd nuts.There's literally nothing else to this hand.You have AA, shortish in a tournament. Your goal is to get all of your money in the pot preflop, or on the flop, no matter what 3 cards fall. Period. Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 I haven't flamed you.You haven't seen a billion hands without them being converted in the strategy forum. I can promise you of that. That's another discussion.I'm asking you serious questions, since you seem to have several fundament flaws in your game.First question is do you know that you have the 2nd nuts? YESNext question is, do you know how unlikely it is that someone has the 9? THAT WAS ONE OF MY QUESTIONSNext question is, do you really think he'd only shove here with 9x? NO Any pocket pair has to think they have the best hand because of how preflop went down, and obviously random bluffs, and even AT, AK type hands could think they're ahead, and want to price out 6 outers.Next question is, why did you limp preflop? TO GET CALLERS What were you trying to accomplish? How was this result different from what you were trying to accomplish?==========================My analysis.Every single decision you made in this pot was wrong, and for completely wrong reasons.Preflop, you should raise for VALUE.Flop is a retardedly easy call. If he has the case 9, good for him. You have the 2nd nuts.There's literally nothing else to this hand.You have AA, shortish in a tournament. Your goal is to get all of your money in the pot preflop, or on the flop, no matter what 3 cards fall. Period.I didn't say YOU flamed me, I said I expected a few flames (for folding the AA). Thanks. And that's all I was asking. I know I have HUGE leaks in my game...........HUGE! That's why I came here, to find out HOW to play the hand. I'm sure it is basic to most everyone, but I almost always lose with AA. This example is probably why but I wasn't sure what TO do. And I now have a subscription to flopturnriver. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I didn't say YOU flamed me, I said I expected a few flames (for folding the AA). Thanks. And that's all I was asking. I know I have HUGE leaks in my game...........HUGE! That's why I came here, to find out HOW to play the hand. I'm sure it is basic to most everyone, but I almost always lose with AA. This example is probably why but I wasn't sure what TO do. And I now have a subscription to flopturnriver.I showed this hand to my brother. He's not much of a player. He said he'd fold to. I asked why."I always lose with AA." :)You need to lose that mindset. You win with AA a lot more than you lose with it. You just remember losing with it more than you remember winning. I'll tell you one other thing. You're going to lose with it a lot more often if you don't raise preflop. Oh, and 999 is pretty much a dream flop for AA. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Honestly, a monkey could win with AA in the long run. It's just that strong.Randomly hitting the mouse would be a long term winning play with AA. Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 I showed this hand to my brother. He's not much of a player. He said he'd fold to. I asked why."I always lose with AA." You need to lose that mindset. You win with AA a lot more than you lose with it. You just remember losing with it more than you remember winning. I'll tell you one other thing. You're going to lose with it a lot more often if you don't raise preflop. Oh, and 999 is pretty much a dream flop for AA. Yes, the mindset sux. I just gotta let it go. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 You limp in EP with AA preflop to get callers. In the SB, you do realize that everyone who's had a chance to put in 1BB (calling the BB) has done so and you cannot possibly lose out on anything by raising?I really can't believe this thread is even halfway serious. I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, but it's just so bad that it's gotta be fake. Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 Honestly, a monkey could win with AA in the long run. It's just that strong.Randomly hitting the mouse would be a long term winning play with AA.Wow. Just.........................wow. Is it your usual MO to berate posters on this forum? Does it make you feel extra manly to insinuate that someone is stupid, ignorant and not nearly the poker player you are? And you wanted to know wtf was up with MY attitude??? Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 You limp in EP with AA preflop to get callers. In the SB, you do realize that everyone who's had a chance to put in 1BB (calling the BB) has done so and you cannot possibly lose out on anything by raising?I really can't believe this thread is even halfway serious. I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, but it's just so bad that it's gotta be fake.Thanks AK.....that's more useful info. I swear, it's not fake. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Wow. Just.........................wow. Is it your usual MO to berate posters on this forum? Does it make you feel extra manly to insinuate that someone is stupid, ignorant and not nearly the poker player you are? And you wanted to know wtf was up with MY attitude???omfg what part of this makes you think I'm berating you? Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Wow. Just.........................wow. Is it your usual MO to berate posters on this forum? Does it make you feel extra manly to insinuate that someone is stupid, ignorant and not nearly the poker player you are? And you wanted to know wtf was up with MY attitude???Don't misinterpret Zach's surliness. You wouldn't believe it, but he's a super-laid-back Canadian with a history of alcohol abuse. For whatever reason, his actual personality gets mixed up in the internets and occasionally comes across like he wants to punch you in the face. It's very misleading. He's just a good dude that wants the strat board to be as good as it can possibly be. Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 Don't misinterpret Zach's surliness. You wouldn't believe it, but he's a super-laid-back Canadian with a history of alcohol abuse. For whatever reason, his actual personality gets mixed up in the internets and occasionally comes across like he wants to punch you in the face. It's very misleading. He's just a good dude that wants the strat board to be as good as it can possibly be.Surliness is a pretty good word. As for the rest, I'll have to take your word for it and believe me, I didn't come here to cause a ruckus. Not too awfully encouraged to want to seek help here again though. Not a friendly atmosphere, other than you. Thanks for your help and patience though.......I really appreciate it. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 lmaothis IS a friendly atmosphere. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Surliness is a pretty good word. As for the rest, I'll have to take your word for it and believe me, I didn't come here to cause a ruckus. Not too awfully encouraged to want to seek help here again though. Not a friendly atmosphere, other than you. Thanks for your help and patience though.......I really appreciate it.I assure you, this is the friendliest strategy board on the world wide webz.Again, no offense, but that's just how silly your fold was. Everyone naturally jumped to the conclusion that it was a joke. That said, I think we were a bit out of line since this should be a place for anyone of any playing level to come and seek advice.It was a really badly played hand, though. Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 I assure you, this is the friendliest strategy board on the world wide webz.Again, no offense, but that's just how silly your fold was. Everyone naturally jumped to the conclusion that it was a joke. That said, I think we were a bit out of line since this should be a place for anyone of any playing level to come and seek advice.It was a really badly played hand, though. Accepted............and moving on Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Thanks AK.....that's more useful info. I swear, it's not fake.I'll berate you. I call BS on this and Zach's surliness. Link to post Share on other sites
defy 0 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 There are two conclusions i have come to:1. This is fake.2. You are absolutely sick. Link to post Share on other sites
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