Something Bad Is Gonna Happen To Ap

[chgocubs99 0]

First of all, I didn't come up with them. His name was mentioned from the very beginning, with the talk of him leaving a table where he was getting crushed, coming back later saying he was ready now, and going on to roll over his opponent. So no, it's not *my* conspiracy theory.Second, I already agreed it's not hard evidence, just odd behavior for someone who should be in coverup mode, trying to help a company he is closely tied to. Or maybe he's just sticking up for his friends in a really unprofessional way. But to publicly call someone a liar when their claims are so well documented, well, he sort of crossed a line there.

To be honest, I completely forgot about this part of the story. You should have mentioned that part of it sooner. If you did, I apologize.

[cubsfan44 0]

First of all, I didn't come up with them. His name was mentioned from the very beginning, with the talk of him leaving a table where he was getting crushed, coming back later saying he was ready now, and going on to roll over his opponent. So no, it's not *my* conspiracy theory.Second, I already agreed it's not hard evidence, just odd behavior for someone who should be in coverup mode, trying to help a company he is closely tied to. Or maybe he's just sticking up for his friends in a really unprofessional way. But to publicly call someone a liar when their claims are so well documented, well, he sort of crossed a line there.

I have no problem with u or anyone speculating. I simply made a comment that this statement was a bit ridiculous.

That's the only explanation for those things he typed.

[uncooper 1]

First of all, I didn't come up with them. His name was mentioned from the very beginning, with the talk of him leaving a table where he was getting crushed, coming back later saying he was ready now, and going on to roll over his opponent. So no, it's not *my* conspiracy theory.Second, I already agreed it's not hard evidence, just odd behavior for someone who should be in coverup mode, trying to help a company he is closely tied to. Or maybe he's just sticking up for his friends in a really unprofessional way. But to publicly call someone a liar when their claims are so well documented, well, he sort of crossed a line there.

I think you might be on to something.

[hblask 1]

I have no problem with u or anyone speculating. I simply made a comment that this statement was a bit ridiculous.

(hblask @ Wednesday, October 17th, 2007, 6:43 PM) *That's the only explanation for those things he typed.

Ugh, did I really type that? I must've been in a tournament at the time. Yeah, that's it. OK, if I had remembered that, I think this could've been cleared up earlier, lol.

[vbnautilus 48]

WTF? I didn't say it was admissible as evidence. I just said it's not the behavior of someone whose job is PR for a company. During times of crisis, corporations make sure their public faces know how to behave. At this point the evidence of wrongdoing is overwhelming. His reaction is not appropriate, and yes, it's a strong indicator that he knew what was going on all along. He can't even hold the corporate line for a few hours online.

You're right that we would expect a lot of companies to handle themselves in a professional manner, but I would just be very surprised if AP had their shit together on that level to coach MS before this game, given how they've handled this thing in general. I'd bet he didn't get any instructions from them, at least it seems like he didn't. About calling DD a liar, he seemed to be most pissed about some story DD related where Sief had open folded a hand when he was beat, with the implication that he too was seeing hole cards. He is insisting that never happened and has challenged everyone to produce a HH of it. His ranting didn't come off as sounding guilty to me, just defiant really.

[Zach6668 513]

The Seif thing you (Henry) are referring to happened like 2 years ago, vs someone who still plays on AP, StuckinPGH.There's precisely zero pieces of evidence that link that case to superuser accounts, or any sort of wrong doing.Seif is a douchebag, and a total dick, but we gotta go with facts and real evidence here. The reason I'm so confident in AP right now, is simply because of all the wild speculation going on. If real evidence comes out, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. This sort of speculation really isn't helping anything. But like the other guy said (one of the chicago dudes, lol), you're certainly entitled to your opinions.Cheers.

[cubsfan44 0]

The Seif thing you are referring to happened like 2 years ago, vs someone who still plays on AP, StuckinPGH.There's precisely zero pieces of evidence that link that case to superuser accounts, or any sort of wrong doing.Seif is a douchebag, and a total dick, but we gotta go with facts and real evidence here. The reason I'm so confident in AP right now, is simply because of all the wild speculation going on. If real evidence comes out, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. This sort of speculation really isn't helping anything. But like the other guy said (one of the chicago dudes, lol), you're certainly entitled to your opinions.Cheers.

Please do not group me with that other moron.

[RDog 0]

What a joke AP is. What kind of morons decide to continue to deny what no one believes? http://www.pocketfives.com/7808EB72-7738-4...29F18885C3.aspxUp to this point I didn't care much one way or the other if they stuck around. I want them out of business now.

[qyayqi 11]

What a joke AP is. What kind of morons decide to continue to deny what no one believes? http://www.pocketfives.com/7808EB72-7738-4...29F18885C3.aspxUp to this point I didn't care much one way or the other if they stuck around. I want them out of business now.

4) They sounded very confident that information will eventually come out exonerating them of all allegations. They believe they can prove that it's not possible to do what people are alleging, as well as that it was never possible in their system. They believe the third party audit will confirm that as well. 5) They weren't able to talk about account 363 at all. Their stated reason for this was that they haven't finished investigating the account.so they're 100% sure it couldn't happen, but haven't yet taken the (obvious?) step of checking out the specific account that people are suggesting is compromised? if they have already reached their conclusion, it could affect how thoroughly they do the investigation.

[cwik 0]

What a joke AP is. What kind of morons decide to continue to deny what no one believes? http://www.pocketfives.com/7808EB72-7738-4...29F18885C3.aspxUp to this point I didn't care much one way or the other if they stuck around. I want them out of business now.

Ugh, when I saw the post from Adam at the AP offices I thought it would be a good thing, but this is actually more frustrating then before.As AP keeps denying the events it raises an interesting thought in my mind. Right now, it feels like we have a pretty plausible story of the events that happened (Dan Druffs write up). But what if AP is right and what we think happened is wrong. I suppose it is possible (I have no doubt there was cheating going on, but what if this has nothing to do with account #363 or an inside job). Well in my mind that could actually be worse. Currently, once admitting they are wrong, simply shutting down (deleting) the superuser accounts shouldn't be too hard, and something like this could never happen again. However, lets say AP is clean and superuser accounts do not exist. Well then how did the cheating happen? I think an outside hack would be a lot worse, because A) it would be a lot more difficult to find/stop. And B) could quite possibly happen again. Maybe on any site.

[Influcted 0]

It's on dutch sites now aswell, a former CEO cracked the system named Potripper and saw all the cards?http://frontpage.fok.nl/nieuws/83093 for those here who are Dutch ( Think I'm the only one )

[Influcted 0]

http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/index....showtopic=44393For those who are interested in a long read about AP

[Loismustdie 0]

http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/index....showtopic=44393For those who are interested in a long read about AP

This is completely off topic but if you click that link the last poster on the first page, macon mark has Marion Sauce picture in his/her avatar, or more specific the same pic that was attached to that poster here. Same person? Not that I care, it just caught my eye/

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Please excuse my tilted political comments that I'm not really prepared to try to back up, for a number of reasons. That's for another time and place.

You're entitled. Sorry for taking it personally.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Yeah, I understand that. But I don't think it's time to start overreacting and calling for government action - that's all i'm saying.

Think back to the first time you played for real $ on-line. Remember wondering if it was legit and safe? Remember the first bad beat, or the first time seeing some donk go on a heater, or the first extended losing streak, or two guys that seemed to know each other too well, or seeing 4 of a kind twice in one session...?...tell me it NEVER crossed your mind that on line poker (OLP) was rigged.These are the thoughts that go thru the mind of every noob and Fish at one time or another.How many threads have been started here where someone was SERIOUSLY claiming that OLP was rigged? Or that the RNG was able to be cracked? Or that there was a way to see hole cards? Now the boogie man is real and has a face.For OLP to remain viable it needs fresh blood to feed the sharks. It needs fish. I believe that one of the biggest schools of fish is the US market. This isn't nationalism talking. Let's face it - the US represents the single biggest target market. People like to say that the Poker Boom started with Moneymaker. They have it half right. It started with Moneymaker on ESPN. I'm not saying that the US is the only market nor single key to OLP being successful - but it is damn important.There is already a huge amount of uncertainty for US players. Many don't even know if it is even legal for them to play. Now add to this the current AP Scandal. It becomes a Worldwide mess. And Pandora has already opened the box. This will never go away - even if "proven" false or redefined as "chip dumping". To think that only educated players know about this and that the Fish will not understand or that it will not influence their behavior it is just silly.At the same time, the US Government has a hard-on to put OLP out of business. Not just here, but everywhere. They had enough support to pass the legislation that has resulted in nearly eliminating the US Market and putting several Gaming Executives in jail. This scandal (and the way that AP has handled it) is the poster child for the anti-gamers. The only thing that could have been "better" for them is if the scumbag cheater was named Muhammed so they could link it to terrorism. The support will be there to act. And for those of you who say: "What can the US Govt do to shut down OL Gaming located off-shore?"The answer is: "Plenty." All the Federal Reserve has to do is turn to the Banks and Financial Services Providers and Transactors and say: "Stop processing the transactions now - or else." And it will end. No more Visa/MC transactions - including "Gift Cards" They can and will identify the transactions and stop them. And not just in the US. ALL banks must comply with the Fed's regulations in order to transact with any US BankSo, in order to reestablish consumer confidence AND head off the almost certainly pending US Govt action, the industry needs to band together and declare themselves an organized INDUSTRY. They need to establish standards, guidelines, testing procedures, security protocols, privacy guidelines...Then they need to run - not walk - to the US Govt and show them their progress and then PLEAD for regulation. I suppose it could be the EU instead of the US Govt, but I think the only way to ensure that the US Govt doesn't act in a punitive manner is to let them set the rules. In no way am I saying the the US Govt is better than others (at least not in this debate), and I do not tend to be trusting of my or any other government, I just think that OLP is gonna need to do something desperate to stay in business.Clearly this is just my assessment and I welcome any rational debate.

[PMJackson21 0]

What a joke AP is. What kind of morons decide to continue to deny what no one believes? http://www.pocketfives.com/7808EB72-7738-4...29F18885C3.aspxUp to this point I didn't care much one way or the other if they stuck around. I want them out of business now.

Meh, that thread def did not deliver. P5 admins are all nice guys (the ones I've met), but that post is pretty hard to take seriously. When a good deal of your profit comes from ad revenue from the sites, it's hard to believe you could be impartial (or on the side of the players).Shaniac made a good post the other day calling p5s out on it, and my friend SBRounder is now permanently banned (LOOOOL) for pretty much calling Lenny a shill in a long rant/post...Well, they deleted the post, then banned him once he kept reposting it.

[RDog 0]

Meh, that thread def did not deliver. P5 admins are all nice guys (the ones I've met), but that post is pretty hard to take seriously. When a good deal of your profit comes from ad revenue from the sites, it's hard to believe you could be impartial (or on the side of the players).Shaniac made a good post the other day calling p5s out on it, and my friend SBRounder is now permanently banned (LOOOOL) for pretty much calling Lenny a shill in a long rant/post...Well, they deleted the post, then banned him once he kept reposting it.

There were several posts in that thread deleted. Sketchy had one deleted as well where he went off on Lenny.Permanently banned?

[PMJackson21 0]

There were several posts in that thread deleted. Sketchy had one deleted as well where he went off on Lenny.Permanently banned?

Heh: http://www.wowswift.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=313

[Zach6668 513]

FCP mods > P5 mods.... :DI've only banned 5 people for disagreeing with me.(sw)

[HoosierAlum 0]

<3 to see the ownage by Tom

[PMJackson21 0]

<3 to see the ownage by Tom

Heh, he then created accounts like 'LennyLicksBalls' (not his most mature moment lol) etc and reposted it, which brought upon the ban.The thing they do that irritates me (besides being a 'boys club' like Tom said), is moving posts off the first page that they don't agree with. I've seen threads that were critical of them be posted, then all of a sudden they are buried on page 3. That's lame...

[RDog 0]

Heh: http://www.wowswift.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=313

LOL, wow. Still surprised they permabanned him.

[Fade2241 0]

Think back to the first time you played for real $ on-line. Remember wondering if it was legit and safe? Remember the first bad beat, or the first time seeing some donk go on a heater, or the first extended losing streak, or two guys that seemed to know each other too well, or seeing 4 of a kind twice in one session...?...tell me it NEVER crossed your mind that on line poker (OLP) was rigged.These are the thoughts that go thru the mind of every noob and Fish at one time or another.How many threads have been started here where someone was SERIOUSLY claiming that OLP was rigged? Or that the RNG was able to be cracked? Or that there was a way to see hole cards? Now the boogie man is real and has a face.For OLP to remain viable it needs fresh blood to feed the sharks. It needs fish. I believe that one of the biggest schools of fish is the US market. This isn't nationalism talking. Let's face it - the US represents the single biggest target market. People like to say that the Poker Boom started with Moneymaker. They have it half right. It started with Moneymaker on ESPN. I'm not saying that the US is the only market nor single key to OLP being successful - but it is damn important.There is already a huge amount of uncertainty for US players. Many don't even know if it is even legal for them to play. Now add to this the current AP Scandal. It becomes a Worldwide mess. And Pandora has already opened the box. This will never go away - even if "proven" false or redefined as "chip dumping". To think that only educated players know about this and that the Fish will not understand or that it will not influence their behavior it is just silly.At the same time, the US Government has a hard-on to put OLP out of business. Not just here, but everywhere. They had enough support to pass the legislation that has resulted in nearly eliminating the US Market and putting several Gaming Executives in jail. This scandal (and the way that AP has handled it) is the poster child for the anti-gamers. The only thing that could have been "better" for them is if the scumbag cheater was named Muhammed so they could link it to terrorism. The support will be there to act. And for those of you who say: "What can the US Govt do to shut down OL Gaming located off-shore?"The answer is: "Plenty." All the Federal Reserve has to do is turn to the Banks and Financial Services Providers and Transactors and say: "Stop processing the transactions now - or else." And it will end. No more Visa/MC transactions - including "Gift Cards" They can and will identify the transactions and stop them. And not just in the US. ALL banks must comply with the Fed's regulations in order to transact with any US BankSo, in order to reestablish consumer confidence AND head off the almost certainly pending US Govt action, the industry needs to band together and declare themselves an organized INDUSTRY. They need to establish standards, guidelines, testing procedures, security protocols, privacy guidelines...Then they need to run - not walk - to the US Govt and show them their progress and then PLEAD for regulation. I suppose it could be the EU instead of the US Govt, but I think the only way to ensure that the US Govt doesn't act in a punitive manner is to let them set the rules. In no way am I saying the the US Govt is better than others (at least not in this debate), and I do not tend to be trusting of my or any other government, I just think that OLP is gonna need to do something desperate to stay in business.Clearly this is just my assessment and I welcome any rational debate.

That's a helluva post. You make a lot of good points. To answer your question - the first time i played poker was online, shortly after moneymaker won the ME in 03. I did see a few questionable hands/situations, as i'm sure everyone has playing OLP. But, my small amount of doubt was dashed when I played live for the first time (about 6 months after I started playing online) and saw many of the same things i'd seen online. Personally, i've never been the type to say ZOMG rigged etc but i do understand the doubt that was out there before all of this, and massive fuel is being added to the fire now. I can only speak for myself but i still don't see HOW the US government is going to shut OLP down for americans, let alone anyone. I haven't been able to depo through my bank acct for years now. I, along with many other americans, have gotten around it. Outside of making the poker sites deny access to americans (which they've tried to do and have been unsuccessful for the most part) or requiring US ISP's to block access (which would be very difficult) what else can they do?

[PMJackson21 0]

LOL, wow. Still surprised they permabanned him.

He can log in, but not post. So, I guess he is still eligible for the rankings etc.

[RDog 0]

Heh, he then created accounts like 'LennyLicksBalls' (not his most mature moment lol) etc and reposted it, which brought upon the ban.The thing they do that irritates me (besides being a 'boys club' like Tom said), is moving posts off the first page that they don't agree with. I've seen threads that were critical of them be posted, then all of a sudden they are buried on page 3. That's lame...

Yeah, I have seen that too. I can't remember what it was about but there was a thread a couple months ago that I just assumed it had been deleted and it turned out had been moved to another page.