Tell Me What You Would Do....

[Actuary 3]

so you were sure he perceived you as weak on the flophow?

[hotbacon 0]

That sentence alone shows your lack of understanding. Where do you guys get this stuff....Stop saying "tells"....thats is the dumbest word ever....especially in the context you use it. I was not purposefully employing different "tells" to throw him off. I just noticed that when i raise him on the flop he percieved me as being weak, and therefore i think his raise was automatic, and not particularly indicative of his hand. Dont criticize me for B.S. that i did not do. If you make a bet againts a decent player and he percieves you as being weak he is going to make a play regardless of his holdings if its a decent spot. If you dont recognize the importance of this then i dont know what to say.

Ok, I get it now.Your opponent sensed weakness from you when you 3-bet preflop and bet a raggedy flop that you're going to end up seeing a SD a hell of a lot.So based on this careful assesment you have decided that he will raise you with air a lot.Makes perfect sense.Man this play is waaaaaay over my head.

[screech 0]

That sentence alone shows your lack of understanding. Where do you guys get this stuff....Stop saying "tells"....thats is the dumbest word ever....especially in the context you use it. I was not purposefully employing different "tells" to throw him off. I just noticed that when i raise him on the flop he percieved me as being weak, and therefore i think his raise was automatic, and not particularly indicative of his hand. Dont criticize me for B.S. that i did not do. If you make a bet againts a decent player and he percieves you as being weak he is going to make a play regardless of his holdings if its a decent spot. If you dont recognize the importance of this then i dont know what to say.

This account has to be a joke. Body language is the same as a tell. Critizing other posters for having a lack of understanding for using the words interchangably is idiotic.I'm not wasting my time with this thread. Either this is a joke, or this guy is a retard.

[liveactiononly 0]

actually, his use of the word "tell" was correct.a "tell" is your body language and other physical information you are giving off, the perception of which gives your opponent information additional to your betting action.perhaps you should stop rationalizing why you didn't get maximum value from this hand, and put more thought into your game, and less thought into convincing several good hold 'em players why they suck.

Where do you get this stuff....i have no intention EVER to prove to anyone that they are a bad player. I couldn't care less. OH and thanks captain for giving me the poker dictionary's definition of a fuking tell. Perhaps you should take your head out of you azz and understand how your opponent thinks. Oh and you think i should be spending more time on my game do you? now that is revolutionary...thanks for the advice

[Actuary 3]

yeah...Screech and Wang...you all really tried to hard to help this fake.it's admirable in someways though.I just want him to post again...

[liveactiononly 0]

This account has to be a joke. Body language is the same as a tell. Critizing other posters for having a lack of understanding for using the words interchangably is idiotic.I'm not wasting my time with this thread. Either this is a joke, or this guy is a retard.

Your a joke, read what he said:No decent 40 player is going to be confused by your silly attempts at throwing him off with mixed tells.This is what pisses me the fuk off....i dont use "tells" to lure in my opponents, and i wasnt purposefully doing anything on this particular hand. In reality the only thing i was trying to do was bet. I just recognized that when i did this he percieved me as weak by the way i threw my chips in. How you have been playing up to this point = how he perceives you.I dont remember who wrote ^that but this is my point of discrepancy: We are not talking about a pro here, many players do not have the discipline to study their opponents and create and image whatever it may be in their mind. This fact, is what makes the individual motions and attitude throughout this hand so critical. I am not a wild player and i probably hadnt done anything in the game to make the guy aware of any particular style in which i play. Especially because this was a mixed game, he doesnt know how i play limit hold'em, he had probably only seen me showdown 1 or 2 hold'em pots within the 5 hours i had been playing. If he doesnt have any specified read on me then the body language and betting attitude would his image of me. thanks

so you were sure he perceived you as weak on the flophow?

That is nature of body language and perception, i didnt KNOW. I thought strongly. And i went with that. The fact that he percieved me weak is actually of little importance to the actual hand. I called on the flop, he bet the turn and i raised him, then then called and check called on the river. What i was really looking for is whether or not you think he would have lead out on the turn if i 4 bet the flop. This is the only part where the way he percieved me would be of importance. Thanks

[Actuary 3]

so, although you weren't giving off tell intentiaonally, you think he is a pooer player that perceived it as a tell.and you could tell this.how?did he have a tell that told you he misread your non-tell?please post agai and address my ? for once.I'm really trynig to leearnScreech confuses me with math, I prefer you testosterone approach to poker

[liveactiononly 0]

yeah...Screech and Wang...you all really tried to hard to help this fake.it's admirable in someways though.I just want him to post again...

Oh yeah you are so hi and mighty because all you and everyone else was trying to do was help and i am insane and just flipped out for no reason at all......lol...below is the first attempt at help "wang" gave me...give it a read if you havent already. I am sure you will see it is filled with help and thoughtful advice, especially the first line. thanks for your input.Quote from WANG: Dude, this entire post is comically nonsensical, but I highlighted a few gems.1) How in the heck were you sure he perceived your "I raise" body language as that of someone without a hand? I guess I can see this as your personal shorthand for "I was giving off total weakness vibes, and I know he bought it." Seems more like "BS NONSENSE" than anything else, but I'll just assume somehow this is a given, and move on to...2) What the heck? You needed a little tell from your opponent to convince yourself that your bottom set was good? Are you serious? Are you sure you're not a cartoon character? You flopped a set on a rainbow board in a heads-up pot against an aggressive player, who could have exactly zero reasonable draws. I think you can just safely assume your set of threes is good.3) What kind of advice do you want, here? You're doing this backwards. Don't tell us what he has. Don't even have a serious conversation with your friend during which the phrase, "Yeah, but he had Ace-Jack" comes up. It does nobody any good (least of all me). Give him a range, and decide what to do to maximize winnings against said range OVER TIME. Just because he has AJ this time doesn't mean it wasn't just as likely that he had AK, 99 or 22 (if you want to get technical, it's actually less likely his hand contains a jack once a jack slides off). Discussing this hand with the results in mind is mental masturbation; no, it's worse. It's like mental dry-humping. This post made me so angry, for so many reasons. It might be the whiskey (angers up the blood), but probably not. I hate.Wang

[Actuary 3]

Live:I have no life.So I read here a lot.We just have little tolerance for big egos and no substanceWang is a crowd favorite and he was simply maknig you aware of how 95% of us perceive this.you are a type and that type annoys me.

[liveactiononly 0]

so, although you weren't giving off tell intentiaonally, you think he is a pooer player that perceived it as a tell.and you could tell this.how?did he have a tell that told you he misread your non-tell?please post agai and address my ? for once.I'm really trynig to leearnScreech confuses me with math, I prefer you testosterone approach to poker

Regardless of the sarcasm in your post, i will reply: A previous poster stated that i was intentionally using mixed tells on an opponent to show weakness when i was NOT. I was simply stating that when i made my bet, my opponent percieved me as weak. The usage of the word "tell" in the above bolded quote is what i am also disputing. Rarely can you find a specific action that someone will tell you exactly what they have. In this case their were no TELLS involved, just simple observation of body language and attitude

[liveactiononly 0]

Live:I have no life.So I read here a lot.We just have little tolerance for big egos and no substanceWang is a crowd favorite and he was simply maknig you aware of how 95% of us perceive this.you are a type and that type annoys me.

How could you let yourself be bothered by such nonsense as this. The problem that you and the rest of your 95% on this forum is that you cant respond to ANYONES post including mine without being negative. By negative i do not mean without correcting someones bad play. It is not that this forum does not like big ego's, it is that they, like yourself, are bad players and the few chances they do get to correct a flaw in someone elses game they take it to an extreme to boost their own HIGHLY inflated egos of their own game. When people do critique someones play, they say things as if everyone should know them and that the person is a donk, as wang did in his first reply to my post. This type of action will never get this forum where it needs to be and will ultimately be its demise. No matter how rude any of you have been, i can still take the time to understand where each and every one of you is coming from. I thank you for your input but i do disagree with the manner in which you present it and i think this forum and many topics within it would be much better served if your attitude towards advice giving would change.

[BuffDan 0]

How could you let yourself be bothered by such nonsense as this. The problem that you and the rest of your 95% on this forum is that you cant respond to ANYONES post including mine without being negative. By negative i do not mean without correcting someones bad play. It is not that this forum does not like big ego's, it is that they, like yourself, are bad players and the few chances they do get to correct a flaw in someone elses game they take it to an extreme to boost their own HIGHLY inflated egos of their own game. When people do critique someones play, they say things as if everyone should know them and that the person is a donk, as wang did in his first reply to my post. This type of action will never get this forum where it needs to be and will ultimately be its demise. No matter how rude any of you have been, i can still take the time to understand where each and every one of you is coming from. I thank you for your input but i do disagree with the manner in which you present it and i think this forum and many topics within it would be much better served if your attitude towards advice giving would change.

I don't know about you, but I have found these posters, who you feel to be single handly destroying the forum or whatever, to be extremely helpful and instructive; I just think they have a short fuse for what they feel is misplaced ego/brag posts, for which it seems like your posts in this thread have been. So actuary, screech, wang... keep fighting the good fight and thanks for some afternoon amusement

[Actuary 3]

LiveActionOnly:I am an ActuaryI do not play professionally.I am a winning player though.And I trust many here are, like Wang and Screech.You should not say thnigs you do not know.Do I have to be a Pro to be a winning player?

[mrdannyg 274]

Where do you get this stuff....i have no intention EVER to prove to anyone that they are a bad player. I couldn't care less. OH and thanks captain for giving me the poker dictionary's definition of a fuking tell. Perhaps you should take your head out of you azz and understand how your opponent thinks. Oh and you think i should be spending more time on my game do you? now that is revolutionary...thanks for the advice

sorry, i'll try to get my definitions from "liveactiononly's mistaken understanding meaning of word" list instead of the dictionary.this has to be a joke though, i finally agree. no one could be dumb enough to think the above actually qualifies as a response to what i said. he said absolutely nothing of value or meaning, except saying that i shouldn't be an idiot by defining words according to a dictionary.the guy is 17 and has had a few good winning sessions at 5/10 live, and therefore thinks he is fantastic.

[liveactiononly 0]

LiveActionOnly:I am an ActuaryI do not play professionally.I am a winning player though.And I trust many here are, like Wang and Screech.You should not say thnigs you do not know.Do I have to be a Pro to be a winning player?

You and i both know the answer to that question. I do not know you and i do not know how you play so i admit i was wrong in saying that you and anyone else are bad players, or loosing ones for that matter. I would however, like you to recognize the importance of the way in which you present your citicisms. I think we can aggree to disaggree about any topic, and as long as we maintain a level of respect for each other, many goals will be accomplished.I ask this question of you: Was i the first to make personal attacks at you or anyone elses playing style? The second reply i got about this topic from wang does not speak so highly of your and this forums ability to convey criticisms with respect for another person. That is my point.

[Actuary 3]

yes, we got personal first.you win.

[Zach6668 513]

Where the **** have I been?Is this thread a joke?Like seriously... I don't even know where to begin. Guys like screech, Actuary, Wang, DannyG, PP24, etc are what make this forum such a great resource for improving your poker game, and the OP is telling them that his play is over their heads.This has to be a joke.OP, you need to read ANY thread started in the Limit forum, Micro Limit forum, No Limit forum, Shorthanded forum, Tournament forum, Omaha forums, Stud forums, etc. Seriously. The only threads that get flamed are the ones that are clearly a pathetic attempt to stroke ones ego, and boast about some stupid play that was correct once, and probably incorrect in the long term, etc.For the sake of the Strat forums, OP, just leave. We are clearly too stupid for you.- Zach

[pokerplayer24 0]

Poker 101 You are in position, you flop a setVillain bets out, you raise, he 3-bets.At this point you have 2 options. A) You can call and raise him up on the turnB ) You can cap the flop because you feel he will lead the turn even if you do.Its kind of like when you raise preflop with AK and the bb calls.The flop comes down Axx. Its not difficult to play, its not exciting and even a losing player would struggle to botch it up.Why is it that everyone who comes out of no where on these forums to post some 40/80 or 100/200 hand always thinks they are hot ****. The hand was simple, no need to overanalyze it with this "he thinks i think that he thinks" mumbo jumbo.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

What i was really looking for is whether or not you think he would have lead out on the turn if i 4 bet the flop. This is the only part where the way he percieved me would be of importance. Thanks

Why are you certain he wouldn't put in a fifth bet, but would rather call and lead the turn? Did you think about that? Or were you relatively certain he'd choose to donk bet the turn no matter what came off?Everyone who said anything nice about Wang:1) Thank you. You warm my hearts. Actually, that's probably the whiskey, but I'm in a sentimental mood.2) Thank you for thinking I'm kinda funny, sometimes, even though I'm probably not3) I give horrible poker advice. Anyone who listens to anything I say is surely going to end up a losing player, unless he plays with me consistently. LiveActionOnly:I like how you conveniently left out the advice I dispensed in my FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD. Way to prove your point, but by being dishonest.Wang

[Abbaddabba 0]

I think the best advice for the OP would be to move down to the 2/4 live. Online, maybe .50/1 would be more appropriate.

[Zach6668 513]

3) I give horrible poker advice. Anyone who listens to anything I say is surely going to end up a losing player, unless he plays with me consistently. LiveActionOnly:Wang

Wang,I've never read a strategy related post by you that wasn't incredibly deep and well thought out. You give fantastic advice. The interesting part is that the drunker you are, the better it is though...

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Wang,I've never read a strategy related post by you that wasn't incredibly deep and well thought out. You give fantastic advice. The interesting part is that the drunker you are, the better it is though...

Are you sure that YOU aren't incredibly drunk when you read my strategy posts? Maybe you should look in the mirror before you start carelessly hurling about compliments, all willy-nilly and such.Haha, I love being drunk, like, all the damn time....

[liveactiononly 0]

Why are you certain he wouldn't put in a fifth bet, but would rather call and lead the turn? Did you think about that? Or were you relatively certain he'd choose to donk bet the turn no matter what came off?Everyone who said anything nice about Wang:1) Thank you. You warm my hearts. Actually, that's probably the whiskey, but I'm in a sentimental mood.2) Thank you for thinking I'm kinda funny, sometimes, even though I'm probably not3) I give horrible poker advice. Anyone who listens to anything I say is surely going to end up a losing player, unless he plays with me consistently. LiveActionOnly:I like how you conveniently left out the advice I dispensed in my FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD. Way to prove your point, but by being dishonest.Wang

i had to get my point across, the first thing you said was something along the lines that my post was a joke or comical nonsense.....whatever it was....that is some B.S. to start a post in which you supposedly are going to provide advice on....i left out the end of your post when i quoted it because that is the only part i was referring to.....whether or not you gave advice after that fact is irrelavant.... But i do aggree with the advice you gave however...lolTo get more into my actual topic of this thread. On the flop i wasnt totally sure that he had a pair or not, thats what makes this an easy decision for me not to 4 bet him. If i 4 bet him and he doesnt have a pair i am most certainly not going to get him to lead out on the turn. I was also merely looking for alternate plays to my own, you know maybe something off the wall that i hadnt thought of. Often, these off the wall ideas are what can greatly improve my game. I respect your advice and that which you have given others in this forum. It is evident by the posters in this thread that many have reaped the benefits. The only aspect that i took issue with is your first reply as i already stated. Back to strategy....even if i had known on the flop that he had top pair, i probably still wouldn't have raised him again.....this decision based solely on the assumption that he would shut down if i put another raise in on the flop....i dont really see how he could think his jack was good if i 4 bet him.... Do you think he would have still lead out on the turn, or another question would be to you think he would have capped it on the flop?

[Actuary 3]

sorry, we don't care anymore.let me advise you:Post some help on others threads, i.e. contributeThen, later on, post anothr hand of yours if you would likeDo not tell us what opponents have, or the results of the hand.Have a sense of humouras AllinBluff told me once, once "Know your role"I miss that dude.

[Zach6668 513]

sorry, we don't care anymore.let me advise you:Post some help on others threads, i.e. contributeThen, later on, post anothr hand of yours if you would likeDo not tell us what opponents have, or the results of the hand.Have a sense of humouras AllinBluff told me once, once "Know your role"I miss that dude.

Dude, you crack me up... NH.As for the hand OP, just read Poker 101 by pokerplayer24 a few posts up. It summarizes it pretty well.