Petoria 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 This hand was posted by Roothlus, the 30th ranked tournament player on pocketfives.com. Here is a hand he posted on the forums there that was played against our very own PrtyPsux:" Okay, here's the situation. Second level of the 7PM 300 and this hand happens against PrtyPSux. I know he's a great player and he knows me as well. So with that being said I'm 100% sure he wouldn't do this with AK or QQ. Basically, here's a situation where it's either the other KK or 6 combinations of AA. So clearly with that range, KK is foldable. PokerStars Game #4752904942: Tournament #23515307, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/04/26 - 19:27:21 (ET)Table '23515307 15' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: leemur1 (2965 in chips)Seat 2: shmuly (1305 in chips)Seat 3: FSUpete (1260 in chips)Seat 4: PrtyPsux (2585 in chips)Seat 5: theman3232 (4150 in chips)Seat 6: ACE2GRIND (1280 in chips)Seat 7: mister MH (3835 in chips)Seat 8: GB2005 (2235 in chips)Seat 9: Roothlus (2615 in chips)mister MH: posts small blind 15GB2005: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Roothlus [Kd Kh]Roothlus: raises 60 to 90leemur1: calls 90shmuly: foldstheman3232 said, "what does overlay mean?"FSUpete: foldsPrtyPsux said, "he GB...theres some articles on card player that might help"PrtyPsux: raises 160 to 250theman3232: foldsACE2GRIND: foldsmister MH: foldsGB2005: foldsPrtyPsux said, "michael something"Roothlus: raises 350 to 600After this raise, he thinks and then hits timebank and now I just think he's trying to lure me in. Turns out he was just thinking if I actually had AA but at this point when he shoved I had already decided I was folding.leemur1: foldsGB2005 said, "yea i read it"PrtyPsux said, "weisenberg"GB2005 said, "thanks"PrtyPsux: raises 1985 to 2585 and is all-inRoothlus: foldsRoothlus said, "nh kk"PrtyPsux collected 1335 from potPrtyPsux: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 1335 | Rake 0Seat 1: leemur1 folded before FlopSeat 2: shmuly folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: FSUpete folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: PrtyPsux collected (1335)Seat 5: theman3232 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: ACE2GRIND (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: mister MH (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 8: GB2005 (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: Roothlus folded before FlopI was wrong here but in this situation, it's got to be a correct fold with his given range. Basically, I just wanted to show someone a specific situationg when it's correct to fold KK." Link to post Share on other sites
Butcho22 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 i think posting a hand where the villian actually showed AA would be good example of when to fold KK. this example just sucks Link to post Share on other sites
Steamed Rice 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 i think posting a hand where the villian actually showed AA would be good example of when to fold KK. this example just sucksi agreeif he was just some random guy he would get flamed for throwing away KK preflopstars = rigged Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 i think posting a hand where the villian actually showed AA would be good example of when to fold KK. this example just sucksDude, you dont even have a clue. This was a hand of Roothlus', that PrtyPsux got him to lay down.Roothlus is one of the best online players out there. I thought I'd just throw some props Prty's way. Link to post Share on other sites
Wandigo 1 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Despite watching him bust out and bubble in two tourney's earlier today, he's certainly a good player. Definately have seen even better plays by him than this though, although Rooth must have mad respect for him laying down his kings. (or he's just that good) Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 Despite watching him bust out and bubble in two tourney's earlier today, he's certainly a good player. Definately have seen even better plays by him than this though.Obviously he didnt think he was making a play. That's a prett tight image. Should Prty by worried, idk. Link to post Share on other sites
Butcho22 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Dude, you dont even have a clue. This was a hand of Roothlus', that PrtyPsux got him to lay down.Roothlus is one of the best online players out there. I thought I'd just throw some props Prty's way.PrtyPrsux is obv a very talented player....but this example is clearly not the best way to show it. Seriously...wow...he pushed KK.....and? Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 PrtyPrsux is obv a very talented player....but this example is clearly not the best way to show it. Seriously...wow...he pushed KK.....and?I just thought it was an interesting hand. Since they're both such awesome players. Link to post Share on other sites
Butcho22 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I just thought it was an interesting hand. Since they're both such awesome players.Well that's fine...but you were saying it's a good example of when to fold KK. Roothlus obv feels he can find a better spot, but if he jams here, in no way is here incorrect. Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 Well that's fine...but you were saying it's a good example of when to fold KK. Roothlus obv feels he can find a better spot, but if he jams here, in no way is here incorrect.I NEVER said that this was a good example of when to fold KK.Look at my quotes, that's what Roothlus said. Link to post Share on other sites
Butcho22 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I NEVER said that this was a good example of when to fold KK.Look at my quotes, that's what Roothlus said.Okay...but you didn't do a good job of making it clear what was written by whoEDIT: I just now have seen those tiny ity bitty quotes you have thereDespite watching him bust out and bubble in two tourney's earlier today, he's certainly a good player. Definately have seen even better plays by him than this though, although Rooth must have mad respect for him laying down his kings. (or he's just that drunk)fyp Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 Okay...but you didn't do a good job of making it clear what was written by whoYeah, it's tough knowing what punctuation marks are. Link to post Share on other sites
bombsaway 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 This hand was posted by Roothlus, the 30th ranked tournament player on pocketfives.com. Here is a hand he posted on the forums there that was played against our very own PrtyPsux:" Okay, here's the situation. Second level of the 7PM 300 and this hand happens against PrtyPSux. I know he's a great player and he knows me as well. So with that being said I'm 100% sure he wouldn't do this with AK or QQ. Basically, here's a situation where it's either the other KK or 6 combinations of AA. So clearly with that range, KK is foldable. PokerStars Game #4752904942: Tournament #23515307, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/04/26 - 19:27:21 (ET)Table '23515307 15' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: leemur1 (2965 in chips)Seat 2: shmuly (1305 in chips)Seat 3: FSUpete (1260 in chips)Seat 4: PrtyPsux (2585 in chips)Seat 5: theman3232 (4150 in chips)Seat 6: ACE2GRIND (1280 in chips)Seat 7: mister MH (3835 in chips)Seat 8: GB2005 (2235 in chips)Seat 9: Roothlus (2615 in chips)mister MH: posts small blind 15GB2005: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Roothlus [Kd Kh]Roothlus: raises 60 to 90leemur1: calls 90shmuly: foldstheman3232 said, "what does overlay mean?"FSUpete: foldsPrtyPsux said, "he GB...theres some articles on card player that might help"PrtyPsux: raises 160 to 250theman3232: foldsACE2GRIND: foldsmister MH: foldsGB2005: foldsPrtyPsux said, "michael something"Roothlus: raises 350 to 600After this raise, he thinks and then hits timebank and now I just think he's trying to lure me in. Turns out he was just thinking if I actually had AA but at this point when he shoved I had already decided I was folding.leemur1: foldsGB2005 said, "yea i read it"PrtyPsux said, "weisenberg"GB2005 said, "thanks"PrtyPsux: raises 1985 to 2585 and is all-inRoothlus: foldsRoothlus said, "nh kk"PrtyPsux collected 1335 from potPrtyPsux: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 1335 | Rake 0Seat 1: leemur1 folded before FlopSeat 2: shmuly folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: FSUpete folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: PrtyPsux collected (1335)Seat 5: theman3232 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: ACE2GRIND (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: mister MH (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 8: GB2005 (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: Roothlus folded before FlopI was wrong here but in this situation, it's got to be a correct fold with his given range. Basically, I just wanted to show someone a specific situationg when it's correct to fold KK."could you post the link for me? Link to post Share on other sites
PrtyPSux 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I think it is a good example of when to fold KK, and its not that I GOT him to laydown the hand. I guess it just goes to show how important position is, I got the last bet in and he knew he wasnt ahead. If Im up against him in particular I probably end up folding too if I was UTG...if im up against someone else I know is good but havent really played with I will probably call.. meh not sure I think he could have played it differently, by differently i dont mean "better" I mean he could have played it so that he didnt have to make a tough choice. Cant put my finger on what the exact play should be but there's definately different ways to play his hand. Despite watching him bust out and bubble in two tourney's earlier today, he's certainly a good player. Definately have seen even better plays by him than this though, although Rooth must have mad respect for him laying down his kings. (or he's just that good)ugh u didnt see that did YOU???lol the $300 tourney, w/e I was busting no matter what. But how bout my blow up in the $ 150 Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I know Roothlus is a great player but why would he assume Prty had Aces here? Maybe I play my Aces different but I wouldn't want to chase him away and would have just called the re-raise with Aces. Why wouldn't I want to see a flop as a 4 to 1 favorite? Is it possible he has aces there? Yes. But the range of hands he put you on.....I just don't get it. In situations like this, I always like to think, "What would Dan Harrington do?". And to quote him, except for certain satellite situations, "Never lay down Kings". Am I alone that I don't see his point that he should have folded Kings? Link to post Share on other sites
MisterB 2 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Its calledRESPECTand PPsux earned itPWNED! Link to post Share on other sites
Kangaroo 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I know Roothlus is a great player but why would he assume Prty had Aces here? Maybe I play my Aces different but I wouldn't want to chase him away and would have just called the re-raise with Aces. Why wouldn't I want to see a flop as a 4 to 1 favorite? Is it possible he has aces there? Yes. But the range of hands he put you on.....I just don't get it. In situations like this, I always like to think, "What would Dan Harrington do?". And to quote him, except for certain satellite situations, "Never lay down Kings". Am I alone that I don't see his point that he should have folded Kings?Im not good enough to lay down kings. If my kings run into aces I can pretty hasppily say it wasnt my day. Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I Am I alone that I don't see his point that he should have folded Kings? Did you not read what Roothlus wrote? He had a very strong read that Prty would only play his hand this way if he held KK or AA. Since there is only 1 way to make KK and 6 ways to make AA, he was actually a massive underdog to Prty's range, and therefore folding is correct. This is not hard. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 It was a stupid Re-raise by roothlus to raise 350 after PP's 160 raise, he talked himself out of calling all in.why? because he sat there thinking, I'm gonna re-raise, and if this guy comes over the top of my re-raise, with a push, its auto aces. it wasnt auto aces this time, which is why, it would have been better to raise from PPsux original raise to about 1k. that way you're not talkin yourself into folding Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 It was a stupid Re-raise by roothlus to raise 350 after PP's 160 raise, he talked himself out of calling all in.why? because he sat there thinking, I'm gonna re-raise, and if this guy comes over the top of my re-raise, with a push, its auto aces. it wasnt auto aces this time, which is why, it would have been better to raise from PPsux original raise to about 1k. that way you're not talkin yourself into folding huh? Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 huh??I've laid down kings preflop., once and it was similar to this situation, except there was a 3rd partya preflop limp from EP, a raise, my re-raise, Limp pushes, raise calls., i fold.it was AA vs junk, I'm saying in HU, back and forth,. roothlus probably had the mind set to fold if PPsux pushes, which he even types out and explains, I put him on AA if he pushes. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I'm saying in HU, back and forth,. roothlus probably had the mind set to fold if PPsux pushes, which he even types out and explains, I put him on AA if he pushes.Thats the pt of his articleHe say he knows PP and knows he wouldn't make this play w/ AK or QQ. Thus he knows he is on KK or AA. And since he has KK its more likely PP has AA. More of a story of knowing his opponent, a random player and I'm bettn the play is different. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Thats the pt of his articleHe say he knows PP and knows he wouldn't make this play w/ AK or QQ. Thus he knows he is on KK or AA. And since he has KK its more likely PP has AA. More of a story of knowing his opponent, a random player and I'm bettn the play is different.Ya I understand, I just think he's giving a player he knows of, (doesnt know personally) too much credit.I've given players i kinda know credit before and its burned me. Link to post Share on other sites
leftygolfer 7 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 "theman3232 said, "what does overlay mean?"A $300 tourney? Hope he was kidding. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Ya I understand, I just think he's giving a player he knows of, (doesnt know personally) too much credit.I've given players i kinda know credit before and its burned me.DittoNot sayn I agree with the play Link to post Share on other sites
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